UL rainjacket with good breathability chat

I've been doing some research on this recently.

Here are a couple to do some looking into:

Marmot Super Mica
Patagonia M10

Mik,

Breathable rain jackets are very, very expensive, and backpacking, at least where you actually wear the jacket a lot, can be hard on a jacket. If you are still at the stage where you would purchase a sil nylon rain jacket, even by accident, I would humbly recommend you do this first:

Buy a Marmot Precip.

You will probably keep it until it wears out. Only a few oz more the the ones that cost 2-3 times as much. In fact until the new materials that shaved a few oz off the Precip was one of the favs on here for UL backpackers. Most importantly full-featured with full pit zips. With the pit zips and large front mesh pockets you can tune the venting to fit the rain and exertion levels, and it is already very breathable fully zipped up. I would get some more experience, until you know exactly what you need before shelling out the big bucks, if then.

Ah, the continuing, futile great conversation for the holy grail.

A conversation consuming a lot of time and effort that could be better spent by just walking in the wilderness instead.

BTW, an article on Grandma Gatewood was just published here on BPL. She did the Appalcian trail 3 times. The first time at age 67. Her rain gear? A shower curtain.

Well this is my last post for a while. Popped into Paramus, NJ yesterday to get a couple items at Campmor. Now back to my hike, which is year two of a series of section hikes looking for the Mosquitos everyone complains about. Hopefully, by the end of the year I will have hiked in every state on the east coast from Georgia to Maine. Still haven’t confirmed the need for the other holy grail — bug protection. Seems Ms. Gatewood would probably agree with me on that subject too.

As mentioned, there really isn't a "breathable" jacket that will work like we all want. Pit-zips, core vents, unzipping the front are all required as no fabric will pass enough water sufficient to keep us dry under exertion. When it's really cold and really wet my 16 oz Gore-Tex jacket is something I can live in for a week…but that's not UL and I don't ask it to be.

After listening to a lot of very experienced BPL'ers recommend (or rave about) ponchos, I recently grabbed the GoLite. I've only tried it on around the house/in the yard but gotta say I'm very impressed. Weighs .5 oz less than my previous go-to Marmot Mica jacket, and ALSO eliminates the need for a pack cover. And it does a much better job than a pack cover as the belt, straps and back of the pack won't get (completely) wet.

As for ventilation, well like I said I haven't actually had it in the field yet, but the theory certainly seems valid…my tests seem to support the stories…and how can all those BPL folks be wrong?

don't exspect that even the most breathable jacket will always keep you or your layers absolutely dry.

Better coverage than a poncho, with better breathability than a jacket.

http://www.thepacka.com

I have two Packas – one in the original silnylon and one made out of eVent (with the pack cover portion made out of silnylon). The eVent breathes well, but the huge pit zips were the big selling point for me.

I don't own a silnylon jacket but yeah, I'm sure it breathes like a garbage bag. I've looked at buying one for hikes where's there's absolutely no rain in the forecast to save weight or to be used as a VBL in the winter.

The Mountain Hardware Jacket I currently own is comparable to the Marmot Precip. The venting is nice but the polywhatever coating they use doesn't breath in any meaningful way imo. Climbing up a fairly steep hill in the snow last winter on the PCT, I was drenched with sweat once I reached the top from the exertion and lack of breathability. While there isn't a jacket that will keep you dry, maintain realistic expectations if you grab a Precip or equivalent.

I've tried a few options over the years but have yet to buy an eVent jacket. Some people feel that it breathes better than goretex. The goretex jackets I've owned over the years performed acceptably for me and I'm done with the disappointment of playing whack-a-mole in this pursuit. I'm going back to goretex for the trips where I think I'll actually need a hardshell, a 7oz poncho for the trips where I don't, and calling it quits on my quest to find a perfect shell as I don't believe one exists.

I have no experience with this company, this jacket, or Goretex paclite but Lukes Ultralite makes a UL jacket http://lukesultralite.com/content/gore-tex-limited-edition-shells

The question that I always ask myself when viewing the Packa: what if it rains and you want to take off your pack, what do you do then ? Can you seperate the jacket- and packcoverpart of the Packa then ?
In the FAQ I found the 'answer' to this: you don't want to stop walking then and thus no need to take the pack off.
At first this seems logical. But then I thought that we actually have to do that sometimes; not because we want to but because we have to.

In my somewhat obsessive pursuit of the ideal rain jacket I now own the Marmot Super Mica, a Packa, a Marmot Goretex Paclite jacket without pitzips, an EMS Helix (old style – not the Neoshell version) and most recently purchased the EMS Airflow jacket. This is now my first choice for outdoor activity, with the Super Mica a close second. FYI – I purchased all but the Airflow on Ebay as either used ( but like new) or NWT. In all cases I paid less than half the retail price, which has reduced the financial burden of my pursuits. I bought the Airflow on sale for $150.

The Airflow has many things in its favor. It is made of Event DVL, which is the 2.5 layer version of Event and therefore somewhat lighter. My jacket in size XL weighs in at 11.5 oz. vs 9.0 oz. for my XL Super Mica ( The Super Mice, unlike the Mica, has pitzips). Unlike virtually every other Event jacket I have looked at, the Airflow has generous pitzips – apparently, a lot of clothing companies think that Event breathes so well, pitzips are unnecessary. I disagree, and these pitzips get used regularly. My jacket.

The Airflow also has several adjustments including the hood size and hood opening, the cuffs, and a drawstring at the hem. The rear tail is somewhat longer, providing additional protection.

Overall, this jacket is a pretty good value and the best cost / feature jacket I have found. The Super Mica is also great and lighter as well, but not as breathable as Event. For the extra 2.5 oz., I like the extra breathability and what appears to be a more durable fabric as well. Color choices are limited – my tarmac is the color of dog poo, but I am not looking to win a fashion award.

The Patagonia M-10 is truly an amazing jacket and is feather light. However, I paid so much for it and worry about its longevity enough that I still find myself taking my Marmot Precip on my shorter journeys. I pretty much only take the M-10 on my longer and/or water source challenged trips, where extra food and/or water have me heavier than usual.

My precip has never let me down and I worry way too much about snags, tears, and delamination with the M-10 when I have it along. It really sucks that it is so darn expensive. If I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't have purchased it at all. A guy shouldn't spend his time in the back country worrying about his gear. It just takes too much away from the trip. With the precip, knowing that it is far more sturdy and cheaper to replace (if necessary), takes away the worries that I always seem to have in the back of my head, when I wear the M-10.

Do yourself a favor and buy a Precip on sale. They're always on sale somewhere. You will pat yourself on the back for the cost savings and I highly doubt that you will regret your purchase on the trail.

You can't separate the pack cover portion from the Packa…it looks pretty goofy without a pack but I'm not trying to win any fashion contests when I'm in the woods.

For me one of the nicest things about the Packa is that your entire pack stays completely dry when you use it. No water running down your back and soaking the pack from that side – it's completely cocooned in the Packa.

If I needed to set my pack down during a downpour and walk away from it I'd cover my pack with my tarp (which is always either in a mesh pocket on the outside of my pack or at the very top of the pack) and take my walk.

Only that the wife wants a fully closed and warm tent and not a tarp. :-)

So use your tent fly or your groundcloth to cover your packs if you have to leave them. It's funny – I haven't carried a tent in more than six years so I didn't even think about your issue. My tent, if I were to carry it, is a Lunar Duo without a detachable fly so I guess I'd grab the groundsheet (GG Polycro) to protect my pack from the elements while I was walking around wearing my Packa.

That could be a possibility (only the fly I mean) to try with the current tent, but not anymore with the new tent I'm thinking off where fly, inner and groundsheet are attached to eachother.

If you want breathable, lightweight, waterproof and durable, you will have to make a sacrifice in some area. Personally, I still prefer Propore (O2, Drop Stoppers, Dri Ducks, etc.). This means that you lose durability. For most of my trips, it doesn't matter. I usually hike on the trail, and I don't encounter rain that often (I hike in the Northwest in the summer). So, my rain gear spends a lot of time in my pack. When I do use it, I try to be careful and not snag it on branches. I have ripped it (over many years of use) but these tend to be little holes that are easily taped up. As for breathability, it is just about as good as you can get, although Event (and some of the really new materials) are a bit better. Likewise, it is (in my opinion) completely waterproof (unlike some wind shirts). The only gear I would consider to be completely waterproof but lighter is Cuben Fiber (the breathable type). I considered switching to it, but heard some disappointing news about the breathability. Then, of course, there is the cost (it isn't as tempting at that price). Which brings me back to Propore. It is cheap, so if you have to replace it every five years (or ten in my case) it isn't that big of a deal.

Get a poncho: $60, 7oz, keeps your pack dry, can be used for a shelter, lots of ventilation and covers to your knees.

If you are using non-breathable materials for rain gear, it better have vents all over the place. Even breathable rain gear needs vents and that is the usual downfall of UL jackets: the first thing manufacturers do to cut weight is to leave out the vents and zippers.

Stephen: "most recently purchased the EMS Airflow jacket. This is now my first choice for outdoor activity"

I'm kind of sworn to not buy a shell more expensive than a Precip unless it is lighter, has a fully adjustable hood, pack-compatible pockets, large pit-zips, and drastically better numbers for waterproofness and breathability(with a preference for eVent). That jacket checks all my boxes.
How is the fit? Is it roomier than jackets like the Super Mica, and OR Helium HD?

In my compendium of jackets, fit has run the gamut. That issue was compounded by the fact that I dropped about 45lbs in the last 18 months. That was one of the reasons for buying the Airflow, as my only comparable jacket was the EMS helix in size XL, which had started to feel pretty baggy on me.

I am now a 37" waist, 43" chest, 5'-9" and 195 lbs ( yeah – still need to drop more weight). While the old Helix feels baggy, the Airflow in XL fits just right. I would not want it any tighter as I could not layer under it. It is slightly tighter fitting than my Super Mica in XL, particularly through the mid – waist down.
As far as pockets, pitzips, etc, this jacket checks the boxes for me.

“I still prefer Propore”

+1. Even though I find O2 more breathable than driducks. Maybe the weave is different.

It doesn’t sound breathable to me if pit zips are needed. I’ve used the O2 a lot in the Midwest. And it worked well. But nothing beats the breathability of an umbrella.

Good luck on your rainwear choice.
-Barry
-The mountains were made for Tevas

"Still haven't confirmed the need for the other holy grail — bug protection."

Might I suggest the Upper Peninsula of Michigan? ;0)) Or the Cascades in early summer? ;0)))

Thanks for the measurements, Stephen.
Didn't realize it was cut so slim from the pics. My chest isn't getting bigger, but it sure seems like a lot of the "Large" jackets(of all types) are getting smaller these days, with more and more of them having less room in the chest and shoulders.
If I give it a try, I'll start with a XL.

More breathable than any of those in my price range and durable.

Steep and cheap has had the super mica a couple if times today for about $100, FYI.