Light clothing gear list. Would love some list suggestions!

I would suggest some rain gear being washington, and then a cap 2 long sleeve, patty nano puff, and some leggings of some sort.

shouldn't be too cold in September, though its been known to snow here in Michigan at that point of the year. maybe wait until you move to the US and see how the weather is fairing closer to your ship off date.

I hike in the PNW and use a layering system based on synthetic base layers and insulation. You definitely want rain gear.

I dial in my base layer to suit the basic temps. Cap2 would be good for this trip. I use R1/Power Dry or Power Stretch as a mid layer and a puffy vest or jacket. Windshirt and rain shell or poncho are 4-season standards. Add gloves, beanie.

That time if year could be clear (and cold at night), or it might be wet the whole time. It's a dice roll and I would be prepared for both cold and wet. It is on they "dry" of the Cascades and the historical data is for 5 days of rainy condition in September and 9 days in October, which is excellent compared to the west side. I found a great historical weather site at http://www.worldweatheronline.com/fishing/Lower-Enchantment-Lakes-Chelan-weather-averages/Washington/US.aspx

It is a beautiful hike. Enjoy!

First of all, congratulations on getting an Enchantments permit. Not the easiest thing to do.

I’ll tell you what I wore on a day-thru hike of it last year in September.

Worn
Shoes: La Sportiva Wildcats. I ended up ripping the fabric on some talus so I’ll probably buy some La Sportiva Raptors for this year’s hike. Shoes are highly personal. Just get something that’s comfortable, will have good traction and is durable for the talus.
Socks: Wrights coolmax socks. I’ve never had a blister with them and wool socks make my feet sweat too much for three season hiking.
What I will add this year: Dirty Girl Gaiters to keep the debris out of my shoes
Pants: Nylon hiking pants. Temperature was plenty warm to wear shorts but I’m trying to be more careful in the sun. I’ve hiked in nylon athletic pants. If they’re comfortable and work for you, I wouldn’t worry about upgrading.
Unmetionables: Under Armor spandex boxers
T-shirt: Duluth Trading Co. buck naked shirt. It’s a nice blend of nylon and spandex and doesn’t smell. I’ve given up on polyester shirts.
Shirt: Nylon long sleeve shirt. I have a few and they all work about the same.
Hat: Last year – sun visor. This year – wide brim hat, probably getting a Tilley

Carried in pack
Possum down gloves
Hardshell jacket
Windshirt
If I’m just doing a dayhike, I’d bring the lightest insulation I have. If I’m staying the night, I’d leave it at home and bundle up with the sleeping bag if the temperatures dropped. More on this below.
Watch cap
Buff

I tend to run warm but I would have been fine in a Tshirt and shorts throughout my hike last year. I tend to keep moving and rarely wear insulation. I suspect that since you’re taking five days and are a photographer, you might want to bring something lightweight. I’d plan on bringing something and make a last minute decision to bring it or leave it in your car once you arrive at the trailhead.

By no means am I an expert on the Enchantments but if you have any questions, feel free to shoot me a PM.

Welcome to Portland. 5 days in Enchantments – nice!

I wear base layer of synthetic (or Merino would be good), insulated mid layer, Gore-Tex or eVent jacket. For winter I wear a thicker insulated mid layer. Only put on the mid layer when I'm done hiking for the day else I'll sweat.

If you have extra layers, the warmth for the weight is less. If you need more warmth, extra insulation in the mid layer is the lightest weight. But many people question this and like extra layers – choose what works for you. You might want to take an extra fleece layer until you're comfortable without.

First of October? – probably the weather will be pretty good, but cool. That's my favorite time of the year – bugs and people largely gone. Quite possibly rain or even snow. Temperature might go below freezing. Check weather reports before you go. Enchantments are just barely on the East side of Cascades so less rain than on the West side.

Thanks a lot guys, you've given me a good starting point to go do some research. I really appreciate it. I was super lucky to get the Core Zone permit, I didn't receive any permits last year when I applied.

I'll definitely need some warm clothes as a photographer I'll be out just before sunrise and after sunset.

Mike Clelland(NOLs instructor and author),he has some great free videos on lightening up be sure to watch(his clothing system,the entire contents of his pack,water treatment and part 1 and 2 on the dinky stuff for ideas),this is an article he wrote The fastest way to backpack weight loss ,this is pmags Lightweight Backpacking 101 and The Frugal Backpacker – The $300 Gear Challenge .These are some other articles and videos for you to check out

Backpacking for Cheap: Gear for the Gearless

Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): 3-Season, 3-Day

Lightweight Backpacking 101: An Introductory Manual for Lightening Your Load Today (1st Edition – August 2001)

Cheap Ultralight Gear List

Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic

Oregon Field Guide: Ultralight Hiking

Lightweight Testimony: Lighter, Farther, Faster
Jamie Shortt talks about his progression and shows his gear list for each stage, Lightweight Testimony: My Journey into Lightweight Backpacking

Thanks a lot for this post Link.

I have actually taken advantage of the recent 40% off at Sierra Trading Post and bought myself some base layers. I also purchased some clothes recently. How is my list looking now for the upcoming Enchantments hike guys?

http://lighterpack.com/r/g2kpdj

I see that you have 5" running shorts and Cap2 long johns for bottoms. If you are used to cool weather with that combo, so be it, but I would want a long pants option, by adding wind or rain pants or swapping out the shorts for zip offs or long pants.

Other than that, it looks like a very useable kit. I would start adding some fleece options for PNW hiking. If you are on the west side of the Cascades, the Olympics and ocean beaches, it isn't so very cold for three season travel, but it can be cool damp and dark. Fleecey mid layers like R1/Power Dry and Power Stretch are gold. I keep R1 long sleeve top, vest and long johns in my gear locker. Check your local thrift stores for 100w/200w type fleece—- you will find loads of it for cheap. Fleece and rain gear layer well.

Cheers Dale. I do have a warmer Icebreaker Tech 260 long sleeve top that's not in the list but it looks like I've forgotten to put it on there.

You're right about the bottom base layer, I need something warmer. I think I'll buy a Capilene 4 for that. I do also have since zip off pants already, I need to add those to the list as well.

Thanks for the tips on the fleece. What advantages does fleece have over the other materials? Is it used as a second layer over the base?

Yes, I wear fleece as a mid layer. It's fine without a shell in camp to take a chill off if there is little wind. Think of it as a quick drying sweater.

And that is the strength of fleece: when conditions are above freezing and wet, it gives enough loft to insulate, but it breathes well and dries quickly. Subject down to the same conditions and you will have and expensive sack of goose flavored oatmeal.

3 season conditions in the Cascades are not so cold, but cool and wet with no direct sun, so you might find yourself in 45F-50F temperatures, 90% humidity, sporadic rainfall and cloudy overcast. The fleece keeps the cold rain shell off your arms and shoulders and passes body moisture from your base layer on out to your wind or rain shell. Some, like Power Dry and Power Stretch work well as a super base layer and can be worn directly on the skin.

Fleece tops and bottoms can do double duty as sleep wear and substantially extend the range of your sleep system. Look for Polartec lables for the good stuff.

"I’ve given up on polyester shirts. "

Hi Ian, just curious if you've tried anything with Polygiene yet? If so, what did you think?

I prefer nylon myself for warmer weather, but polyester is nicer for colder temps.

Experts:

What's the difference between polyester and nylon? I always consider them interchangeable (though, I know nylon is more durable and opt for that in my socks and climbing pants)

I've always thought of polyester for soft wicking layers and nylon for tougher outer layers. I have had polyester shells that were great, but they are rare. My experience is that nylon is colder and not wicking, but still quick drying in the right weave/weight.

I'm not an expert. What do you mean difference, like chemical make up, or general properties? Not being a chemist, i can't answer the first, but can answer some of the latter.

First off, there are actually different kinds of nylons and polyesters with slightly different properties from each other, but for simplicity's sake, we'll talk about them in a generalized way.

Nylon has a slightly stronger tensile strength at a lower weight (rather density). It's somewhat innately stretchy, and while we can classify it as "hydrophobic", it almost borders the line between hydrophillic and hydrophobic. Or rather, it's the least hydrophobic of the synthetic fibers commonly used–moisture regain that ranges from around 4% to 8% or so. This, seems to make garments made out of it, less intensely stinky.

It has a somewhat significant higher thermal conductivity than polyester. Hence, while it can be used for colder temps, it seems a bit more at home at warmer temps provided loft is not involved.

It is fairly susceptible to UV damage, but is otherwise relatively chemically stable.

Polyester has slightly less tensile strength, less stretch, at a higher weight (density) than nylon, is less thermally conductive so if loft is not a factor, better for cooler temps somewhat (thinness and breathability of a garment can really help to offset this though).

It is highly and innately UV resistant, and is quite hydrophobic (moisture regain that ranges from around .3 to 1% or so i believe) which seems to be one of the reasons that it builds up and retains odors more than nylon, if not treated not to.

Polyester is the same material that your #1, PET water bottles and the like are made of. This is one of the reasons why polyester is so ubiquitous in the textile/fabric world, because its so cheap compared to every other fabric material, so often coming from common recycled bottles/plastic.

Nylon on the other hand is more expensive, thus tends to be a bit more rare.

On a side note, a little while ago, i bought a thin, breathable, button up shirt made out of 53% nylon and 47% tencel. This shirt is bleepity bleep amazing for hot and humid weather! Dries super fast, super comfortable, super wicking, doesn't build up odor noticeably, nice and cooling, like seriously, it's just super all around (perhaps i should start a Kickstarter campaign to sell these shirts?).

I think it is now my most favored hot and humid weather shirt–replacing my beloved linen and hemp shirts, and my OR Echo ls shirt.

Thanks again, awesome info.

"My experience is that nylon is colder and not wicking, but still quick drying in the right weave/weight".

The wicking thing is a common misconception. Actually no synthetic fiber is innately wicking, they have to be altered whether in special shapes, denier gradient, bi component fabric or have a chemical finish applied to become "wicking" in the sense of seemingly absorbing and spreading moisture.

Nylon can be made this way, just as much as polyester can be, but polyester, probably because of cheaper price and less moisture regain, has become the go to fabric for the outdoors world.

The difference being is that two garments equal in all things, except one being polyester and one being nylon, is that the polyester will dry slightly faster and be slightly warmer and heavier than the nylon one. However, for the dry times, it won't be a big difference. The nylon will tend to be a bit tougher and last a bit longer, unless significant UV exposure is involved–in that case, the polyester will likely outlive the nylon garment.

Hi Justin for the last 4 months I've been using cap 1 base layer shirts with Polygiene in my experience they smell just as bad as layers without the treatment. I am using them in temps between 60-80 degrees.

That's interesting Andre, thanks for the feedback. I don't have long term experience so far, but initial and shorter experience has been positive, if not as outstanding as the marketing has hyped it up.

For example, when i went to Costa Rica mid-latter April, i wore the OR Echo ls shirt for a few days without washing. In some of the areas we went to (especially on the coast) it was very hot and humid and so i was sweating constantly in it, even when not active. While it wasn't as good as Merino, it was definitely better than non treated polyester shirts i've tried before.

Curious, did it start out better at first and then go down hill after some time, or just not work for you to begin with? I wonder if it's absorbing/building up oils that are going rancid, which is creating the smell rather than microbial based smell? I know some synthetics while hydrophobic, absorb oils well. If this is the case, then perhaps the ultimate combination for synthetics would be Polygiene treatment combined with a Dri Release type oleophobic treatment, with a little percentage of Merino or Alpaca intimately woven in?

Also, are you using them on long trips, or short trips?

To the OP –
If you need/want more, here is a review of Andrew Skurka's book for principles, experiences and gear for light long distance hiking.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/book_review_andrew_skurka_ultimate_hiker_gear_guide.html?m=00648eSgahCwFqbPyKNwT_Awgtg#.U5PxhRaZahY

http://andrewskurka.com/product/ultimate-hikers-gear-guide/

I wear them for 3-5 days, I work in Outdoor Education so the 2 shirts that I have have been in near constant use. They never really stopped the smell and I do all my washing in Atsko Sportwash. However I am happy with the performance of the Shirts otherwise.

Andre, it's possible that they are building up oils which are going rancid. Polygiene is only designed to stop odor from microbial activity. Odors can develop from other means as well.

I hesitate to recommend this, because it could more quickly degrade the silver treatment, but try washing them in warm to hot water with a strong detergent or high ph cleanser like sodium carbonate.

Atsko Sportwash and other gentle cleansers aren't really good at de-greasing eg emulsifying and breaking up fats (oils). Those gentle cleaners tend to be ph neutral, and better for natural fibers which because they are hydrophillic naturally and innately wash easier. Or they are good for outer shell or insulation type garments with DWR's because these outer garments don't come in contact as much with body oils, but need a gentle cleanser as to not wash out/degrade the DWR treatment.

You need a high ph product or strong detergent which can emulsify fats occasionally for synthetic baselayers (especially polyester and polypropylene). Again, this might "restore" your shirts somewhat, but could also shorten the life of the silver treatment.

It's odd how some of the reviews of polygiene can be and sometimes are so mixed. I've read a number of positive reviews, but occasionally i read some not so positive reviews. My own experience is so far positive. There could be different factors for this. There could be "lemon products" wherein the process for applying the treatment didn't work out in an ideal way. Variable body chemistry, skin oiliness, etc among different people. Different conditions for them being used, etc, etc Lot's of potential variables.

ps if you do go the route i recommended, make sure they are rinsed very well after.

Another tip is once you've gotten them deeply cleaned, afterwards, make sure you wash them a bit more often so they don't get a chance to build up the oils and gunk in between and on the fibers. In this case, you can use cool water, gentle cycle, with gentle cleaners. (or if out in the woods without access to these, rinse well in clean water more often).

For warmer weather, wicking nylon based fabrics are a nice compromise because they don't build up as much odor and stink as polyester, and it's easier to more deeply cleanse them via more normal means.

Even better, are thin shirts made out of mostly nylon mixed with some natural or hydrophillic fibers. For example, i have new shirt that is very thin and made out of nylon and tencel blend. Wicks great, is cool, fast drying, and doesn't build up much odor at all and the little it does is easily washed out.

Nice discussion here guys, thanks for the information. Definitely learning.

Buying some Patagonia Cap base layer bottoms tomorrow, what R rating would you get for three-season use in the PNW? I was thinking maybe the Cap 3? Tempted to grab the R1 hooded fleece too..

"what R rating would you get for three-season use in the PNW?"

Not familiar with their lineup but I'd go with a silkweight baselayer for three season PNW backpacking. Speaking for myself, my legs never get cold above freezing so I never bring the bottoms. However they are nice to have to sleep in to keep your sleeping bag/quilt from getting dirty.

YMMV