Merino wool hoodie for under $100. What do you guys think?

Taylor, I don't think your hoody would be popular for ultralight backpackers. Some people on here like wool hoodies as base layers because they are odor resistant, warmer while wet, and dry slower (which is advantageous is some situations). However these are really thin, like t-shirt thin fabrics and the whole garment is usually like 8 ounces total weight – a base layer.

It appears that you have created a heavier weight wool hoody. Most people on here hike in base layers, putting on a windshirt or rain jacket when necessary. When they stop moving they put on a puffy jacket which is very warm for the weight. Wool is not very warm for the weight. Even for an active mid layer, most would prefer a light fleece over their wool base later. Also really thin wool dries reasonably fast, heavier wet wool soaks up a bunch of water and takes forever to dry.

So basically what I am saying is, wool is only useful to ultralight backpackers when it's a thin base layer. For a sweatshirt, fleece is more practical.

There may be some people hiking in very cold climates who would appreciate your wool hoody, I have heard reports that wool regulates heat better and is desirable for cold/dry conditions.

Also you have a huge metal zipper on it that adds weight.

It looks like a very nice product and I may even buy one myself, but it's not an item that an ultralight backpacker would be interested in. It would fit in better as an everyday life/work sweater. Now if you guys could create a 150 weight wool base layer hoody for under $100, you would be directly competing with the ibex indie hoody which is the most popular wool base layer hoody right now.

I like the cuffs. I also like the hood. The stitching looks great from the pictures. I'm not in the market, but I'll spread the word if I get the chance, like in one of my blog posts. I'm due for a big Merino Wool state-of-the-market report.

Good on you for creating something!

I'm not sure that "half the price" line is accurate. The Ibex Hooded Indie is the most popular Merino hoodie around these parts and it goes for $115. With a coupon or a sale, I'm sure it could be found for $95.

Then again, the Indie is a different beast. at 195 g/m² it's more of a baselayer than an insulation layer. The APEX is almost twice that. I suppose in that regard it's a good deal, and it looks like something I would love to wear around town, but as an insulation layer it's going to lose out to lofted materials like down and… errr… APEX (awkward). I would consider this a fashion item and a backpacking/camping item, but not so much a lightweight backpacking item.

All that to say, I like the design and the material looks great. If I were in a position to spend more on my everyday clothing, I would consider getting one.

This is great feedback. And a writeup/share from you, Max, would be awesome!

You all are totally right that this is definitely a hoodie, not a lighter baselayer. So I can totally see the worry using this for longer hikes in milder climates. The Apex might be more on par with Icebreaker's Quattro or the like. We worked for quite a long time on the fit, so that it would get used in your everyday life as well as a portion of your pack life. The zippers are heavy duty YKK plastic zippers (not as much added weight, less known breakage, and resists corrosion).

Any other thoughts would be welcome.

I'm curious, what's the weight for a size medium one of these?

Taylor, do you guys have access to baselayer weight wool? The options for merino wool hooded baselayers are pretty slim, I think an alternative to the ibex indie would sell well in the ultralight market.

That looks like a nice sweatshirt. I'd love to have one.

From your site: "Built to Last. Merino wool is 6X stronger than cotton and you can wash it far less often."

Bwah..???? Merino wool is 6X stronger than cotton??? How so and in what way? It has better flexibility/bend strength and flex durability, but cotton's tensile strength is typically higher on average than wool, AND MUCH more when both are wet. Thin cotton typically holds up better to abuse and lasts longer than thin pure wool. Take linen, almost the opposite of wool in many ways, has little flexibility and is brittle, but because it's tensile strength is 2 to 3 times higher than cotton, with a good build, for equal weight/thinness it tends to last longer than cotton.

Wool is only strong and durable when it's heavy/thicker and well felted. These type garments or blankets can last a very long time, if not attacked by moths, mites, etc.

A thicker, heavier all wool top takes forever to dry. Thinner, wool-synthetic blends that are used for baselayers are ok to good in that department. So i very much agree with Justin Baker, for a mid layer, fleece or the like is better.

If one wears a higher wool blend baselayer, and one is wearing also a mid or thermal layer, one doesn't need to worry as much about stink for the mid/thermal layer, because the wool baselayer does a good job of "filtering" that which would normally make the 2nd layer stink (oils, dead skin cells, dirt, acids, etc). Hence a fleece mid/thermal layer is a good combo with a wool or high wool-synthetic blend baselayer.

Not trying to be mean, but from a holistically logical viewpoint, an all wool, thicker mid layer/thermal type garment is not the best idea for backpacking. And you really need to clarify your 6x's stronger statement, or people with fabric knowledge and experience will tend to see it as a misleading marketing ploy and that will turn them right off.

"And you really need to clarify your 6x's stronger statement, or people with fabric knowledge and experience will tend to see it as a misleading marketing ploy and that will turn them right off."

Most of the marketing behind any outdoor garment is total b.s. You ever read the tags on a fleece made by a techy outdoor company? "we use our patented hydro wicking turbo dry fabric made from nanofiber fleece technology." No dude… it's just a fleece.

Commercial. Moved to Gear Deals.

You may find the competition in the street wear market rather fierce.

Cheers

Justin, you made some interesting points.

When is wool advantageous for drying slower? What situations?

I'm through hiking the Smoky's in a couple weeks and I'm thinking of wearing 150 wool t-shirts and bringing a light fleece. Are wool t-shirts good for that situation?

Justin Baker wrote, "Most of the marketing behind any outdoor garment is total b.s. You ever read the tags on a fleece made by a techy outdoor company? "we use our patented hydro wicking turbo dry fabric made from nanofiber fleece technology." No dude… it's just a fleece."

While i mostly agree, a few holistically practical points: Typically those companies/corporations have a lot of spending money and can afford to make inflated claims because they can easily absorb the loss of much more discriminating customers who are overly turned off by egregious hyperbole. I doubt kickstarter guy aka Taylor can afford such losses.

Two: these corporations/companies typically don't come around here asking us for our opinions. If they did and their claims were way over hyped, i would say the same things to them. I spoke very frankly/directly with Michael from Sierra Designs–particularly about the price of their cuben tent (though i know he doesn't personally control that).

Three: There is a difference between over hyping a fabric based on certain unusual or proprietary characteristics, treatments, etc, and overtly and egregiously giving a very false impression, especially in comparing one well known fabric textile to another well known fabric textile. Strength of a textile fiber is usually most defined by tensile strength, and wool fibers are weaker than cotton fibers, and VERY MUCH so when both are wet. Technology is amazing stuff and evolving all the time, and various fabric and fabric treatments are affected by this. Wool and cotton not as much as synthetics overall.

Saying that Merino wool is 6x stronger than cotton is so off the mark as to be egregiously misleading.

I'm giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he doesn't know the extent of this, i'm trying to give positive critical feedback. People like myself, if i see something like this, i won't even consider the product based on principle alone. I'm blatantly lied to by politicians, media, and enough corporations as it is, i don't need any more falsities for the purpose of self gain.

"When is wool advantageous for drying slower? What situations?"

I'm assuming you're asking Justin Baker, but i will give it a shot. Very dry and very cold or very hot conditions, and cold and sustained wet.

In these conditions, thin, well wicking and very quick drying synthetics can be problematic because in cold and dry conditions they get the cold "flash dry" effect, and in hot and very dry conditions you want a fabric to hold some moisture to prolong the cooling evaporative effect–however, in this sense cotton is better than wool for hot and very dry. Coarse fibered, slightly thick, loosely woven or knitted, wool however can better protect against very hot outside temps–acts to insulate that and sun from oneself some. Very fine and more tightly woven or knitted wool is not as good for this, because it insulates too much and isn't as breathable. In cold and sustained wet weather wool does tend to be warmer when wet–i don't know or understand all the mechanics behind it, but i've noticed the effect in comparison to most synthetics (though non well wicking polypropylene is pretty good too).

In colder weather, i prefer wool-synthetic blends. Dry a bit quicker, and typically last longer than an all wool top, while still having good odor control and preventing flash dry freeze effect. I like at the least 35% synthetic to rest wool. Higher synthetic percentage is better. I'm excited by my new 60% wool and 40% polypropylene top, but won't be trying it out until late fall.

What kind of temps and conditions are you expecting? If it's going to be mostly warm and humid, i wouldn't personally go for wool, unless it's very thin and has a high synthetic ratio. I like thin linen or hemp, or especially linen and hemp synthetic blends for that (unfortunately, these tend to be hard to find), and nylon or nylon and natural fiber blends. I saw a couple of shirts recently that are thin and made out of 52 or 53% nylon to 48/47% tencel. This also would be excellent for such conditions. However, linen, hemp, linen/hemp/tencel-synthetic blends aren't very insulating, so if it gets suddenly much colder not the best kind of top.

Wool is nice when you've worked up a good sweat from hard hiking and want to take a 5 minute break. The rapid evaporation from a synthetic shirt can really cool you down too much, wool will keep you warmer.
So if you are someone who likes to hike hard and take lots of breaks rather than moving at a stable pace all day, you might find wool beneficial.
Try both and see which works better for you.

"Try both and see which works better for you."

Or also try a third option, a blend, some good of both worlds.

I'm struck by the fact that you're using 16.5 micron wool. AFAIK, most other manufacturers use 18.5 or coarser (lower numbers are considered finer, rarer, and more expensive) in most of their garments, and 17.5 in their "finest" lines. (Ibex uses 17.5 in their premium "Nelson," which definitely has a softer, more luxurious feel). So what does 16.5 feel like?