Caldera Cone?

I just adore mine. Read the reader reviews on this system (hmm, hyperlinking to this is squirrelly today – just look up the Trail Designs Caldera under “Stoves – Alcohol”) and you’ll find a lot of enthusiastic users. A few of us (myself and Brett, I believe) are jetboil users who converted to alcohol largely because of the Caldera Cone design and the efficacy of the system. It’s made me want to try out even more options, such as the DIY SuperCat stove and End2End’s Gram Weenie stove. It’s a great intro to cooking with alcohol!

WARNING: No direct experience.

I too have read some very positive feedback — but the Caldera does come with baggage — meaning it is far bulkier and heavier than most all other alcohol systems — so much will depend on your cooking style and preferences.

Is this for solo use? What is your style of cooking? Just boiling water to rehydrate freeze-dried meals or something more elaborate? If boiling water, how much do you boil at any one time? How important are light weight, compactness, speed, etc. to you?

Rather than me rattling off my own likes and dislikes, I think it will be helpful to spell out your criteria — and then folks can give you a more pertinent evaluation.

Usually for two, but now that I moved next door to the AT I may start doing some solo. What I cook is all over the board. Usually use 1.3l Evernew. Am considering buying the .9l Evernew to go with the Caldera. Any chance I could use the 1.3 on it as well? I don't know, and I doubt it, but it sure would be nice.

I don't mind spending the money for nice gear – especially if I do it the first time. I'm really just looking for something that works well regardless of conditions and is reliable. I'm currently cooking over a Pocket Rocket.

Jeff, to really appreciate the Caldera Cone you should spend hours stacking fragile home-made components like beer cans on top of cat food cans surrounded by wire mesh and wrinkled aluminum foil. Then light that stack on fire..
Im exaggerating to make a point, the Cone set is two pieces, and very stable. Choose one sized for the pot you have (yes there is one for the Evernew 1.3), or get a set with a pot. Trail Designs or Anti Gravity Gear.

To existing Caldera cone users :
If you were to buy one now, would you consider the TiGoat version ?
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/products.html
I am considering either ( Brett pretty much explained why…) but cannot make up my mind.
( comments welcome from all)

Franco

Franco,

Thanks for pointing out the tri-fuel Caldera Cone – a natural progression and cool idea! In answer to your question, I'm sticking with alcohol for environmental and cleanup reasons on the Esbit front, and the fact that in the summer, wood fires are almost universally banned where I backpack.

I'm finding that with more experience cooking with alcohol, I'm leaning towards experimenting more as my confidence and knowledge about it grows. The fun thing about this stuff is that, weight-wise, you can afford to pack a couple of different stoves on an outing and see how they stack up, which accelerates the learning curve nicely!

Now that I've found the AntiGravity Gear Caldera kitchen set the packability of the cone is a non-issue, which swayed my purchase decision…the whole thing is almost exactly the size of a Jetboil. My next kitchen experiment is to get all the alcohol cooking bits packed into a FireLite SUL 500 mug… :-)

Hi Nathan
Obviously it is not a coincidence that Jetboil owners ( like me…) are looking at the Caldera, it's the "system" appeal.
At the moment I just boil water but for canister use I am looking at the Heat it as well for more versatility. However I found that for up to 5 days, alcohol does the job for me. The canister would be in case I extend my walks.
Here in Australia we also often have open fire bans and most parks are 'no open flame' at all times.
This is why I am wondering if I can justify the extra weight. I am thinking "in emergency only" more than anything else.
Franco

Can anyone comment on what features were added to allow wood burning mode in the Caldera cone? Far as I can tell there is nothing different – you just remove the stove and add burning wood inside the cone instead. Am I missing something here? As an aside, I just got the Caldera system in the mail for the Firelite 500, along with the Caldera Kitchen and Esbit accessory. Can't wait to try it out, it looks like a great system, albeit much bulkier than what I use now with the Firelite 500.

"Can anyone comment on what features were added to allow wood burning mode in the Caldera cone? Far as I can tell there is nothing different – you just remove the stove and add burning wood inside the cone instead. Am I missing something here?"

Basically, aluminum is useless for wood burning. You have to get a Ti Cone (aka the Tri-Ti system).

The upgrade to the aluminum models (the dovetail closure) allows for Esbit (which caused previous models to work harden) use rather than wood fire use.

I've been talking with the Trail Designs guys since before the Caldera fully launched. I bought a prototype Caldera for the SP600 when there was a note on their website about 'we might have a model that will fit your cup / pot.

Anyhow, I was ecstatic to see them finally launch the Tri-Ti. One can imagine, working with Ti is significantly more difficult than working with Al.

I've already ordered one (rumor has it that I'm likely one of the first as I was bugging TD and TiG as soon as the announcement was made) and will post my impressions when it arrives. Note, I'm so jazzed about this release that I opted for it rather than a BushBuddy, even though I own a SP900.

When I asked, TD said that, for now, they are only doing Ti-cones as part of the Tri-Ti system. However they are trying to work out how to support other pot users (they really want to, it's just how to do it right). I think they have patterns laid out (I suspect virtually the same as the Al patterns), but creating stock of ti-cones for particular pots without any sense of true demand would be EXTREMELY expensive (and IMO foolhardy) for them to do.

BTW – The Ti-Tri POT appears to be the same as the Brasslite 0.9L. I have no confirmation on that, but the specs appear identical.

I suspect, and this is purely my own speculation, that TD / Ti Goat will eventually launch a one-off ti-cone program where they will make cones to order (providing they already have a pattern for said pot). I would bet there would be a decent wait on these, depending on the queue that happens when / if they launch.

Also, I live in the Midwest (KSMO)… we RARELY have fire bans.

Jeff,

This is purely my opinion, but I don’t think there is a better option for multiple person alcohol cooking than the Caldera. Nearly every other system / stove / burner out there is tuned for single person use.

Also, you need to realize one DOESN’T ‘buy a pot to go with their Caldera’, one buys a Caldera Cone™ Stove to got with their pot. Each cone is set up for the particular geometry of a particular pot. The 0.9 Evernew and 1.3 Evernew pot / cone combos are not going to be interchangeable.

As most people find 500mL more than sufficient to cook for one, I bet getting a 0.9 Evernew and complete Caldera Cone / Kithcen would serve your purposes nicely. It may require a bit of adjustment of cooking style on your part, but I bet it would work.

As an aside though, should TD ever release a 0.9 Evernew Ti Cone, one could reasonably expect to use the 1.3 Evernew pot with it for woodburning only.

Also, another aside, the Caldera Kitchen™ are no more than a nifty way that AGG (Tinman I suppose) found to store SOME of the Calderas (it only works for the shorter ones, I got confirmation that it won’t work for the SP600 Cone as the pot is too deep making the cone too tall). I plan on trying to rig something similar (but not exactly the same) when I get my Ti-Tri in the mail.

Ahhh that explains the issue, thanks Joshua. I'll be interested to hear about your experiences using the wood burning mode on the tri-ti.

Jeff:

I heartily agree with Joshua above — which is why I asked you to state whether you cook solo or for multiple people. If I were cooking for multiple people, I might consider the Caldera as well.

However, if you will mostly be cooking just for yourself, you should know that there are much lighter and more compact alternatives (the Caldera is 3 or more times bulkier and heavier). I see some folks have transferred from JetBoil to Caldera. Again, if compact and light are important to you, then you should also know that just as the JetBoil is the heaviest and bulkiest canister stove system in the world, the Caldera is also the heaviest and bulkiest amongst all alcohol stove systems. And no, compact and light do not automatically equate to flimsy or fragile.

Four criteria that are near and dear to most solo alky stove users are: light weight, compact, simple, and efficient. The Caldera system has some good points for larger scale cooking (if you buy the right pot and configuration) — it is comparable to other alky stoves in efficiency, but it falls short comparatively in the first three criteria for solo use.

Anyway, the Caldera may be an excellent system — but much will depend on your use and preference. If you are new to alky stoves, I highly recommend reading up on different alky stoves and usage before jumping in for the bulkiest and heaviest system out there for solo use. Here are two good links:

http://zenstoves.net/
http://www.minibulldesign.com/

I appreciate the feedback. Benjamin's links should help me learn more. Also, I'm in no hurry at all, so maybe I can wait for a Ti version.

I use a Caldera cone with an SP500 and feel I've finally found the perfect stove. And Ive tried canisters, making my own alcohol stoves, and buying other alcohol stoves. The main reasons are the incredible wind resistance and fuel efficiency. But mostly it's for the wind resistance. To me, the extra few oz and bulk are worth it to carry a system I can trust like a canister stove system. I've had problems with alcohol stoves blowing out, or never coming to a boil in even gentle winds. I've also tipped a few unstable systems ans spilled fuel. I was almost ready to go back to canisters when I discovered the Caldera. Still much lighter than a canister stove system, yet a much better performer than the lightest aclohol systems IMO.

Like Ben, I haven't used one myself but from the looks of it, deem it way too bulky for me. I much prefer my foil windscreen that is lighter and folds up to stow in my cook pot.

Jeff:

I would like to jump in and offer an observation or five.

First….I do agree with one thing that Ben says….read up on the different alcohol stoves and their usage.

Second…..weight calculations. When you perform your weight analysis, be sure to include the weight of the stove, windscreen, pot stand, primer pan, and weight of fuel used.

Third….when considering the above…..you will find that the Caldera System is extremely competitive weight wise. Our stove is among the lightest at 16 grams with an integrated primer pan. Far from being 3 times heavier, it is actually 3 times lighter than a number of stoves out there….and perhaps even the lightest if you factor in a 7 gram primer pan. As to the cone weights, they are listed on our web site and vary for each pot. Here again, depending on the pot size the cone can be lighter than a standard windscreen….and if you factor in that the cone also naturally eliminates any pot stand (it is the pot stand) …you have additional weight savings there. Finally, because of the ability to funnel all the heat into the sides of the pot, while isolating the stove and pot from the wind and the ground, the Caldera can save fuel weight ….especially in the wind.

Fourth…..because of the wide base of the Caldera Cone, it would be difficult to find a more stable backpacking stove system of any design (canister, esbit, white gas, or alcohol). From a stability around the campsite perspective, you have to want to knock it over before it will fall.

Fifth….as to bulk….the Caldera System components do not take up any more volume than any others. The concern here is not bulk….but the fact that the cone can not be folded like a typical windscreen. However, if there are areas in your pack (sleeping pads for example) that the cone can be laid flat, there is no bulk issue. If there are other bulky items like pots or cups or water bottles around which the cone can be wrapped, again…no incremental space is consumed.

To repeat….do read up on the different approaches. Listen to the advice of those that actively use the various systems and can give you direct comparisons based on experience. Hope that helps!

Rand :-)

Hi Rand:

Thanks for the additional detail, and elaborating the different ways in which the Caldera components can be stashed or wrapped separately. I only touched on the set up being potentially advantageous for larger scale cooking — but you have illustrated in a much better way that this system can work beautifully — depending on needs and also depending on one's existing gear set up (e.g. if one already carries a hard-sided drinking bottle, then it's no issue at all wrapping the Caldera cone around it).

The set up I had in mind — which isn't necessarily the best or the worst but just simply a reflection of my own preferences — is an "everything conveniently packed into one package" that's light and compact for a solo user. As an example, with my own set up — my FireLite 500 pot, alky stove (with integrated pot stand), windscreen, 2 BIC lighters, 4 oz. of fuel, small towel and spork — all fit inside the mesh bag of my FireLite 500 with the final dimensions just ever so slightly bigger than the dimunitive pot itself. If one were to do the same "everything conveniently in one package" with the Caldera system — using the same Firelite pot — one would very likely need to house everything not inside the pot, but inside a much larger, hard-sided bottle. In other words, the Caldera system is not inherently compact — unless certain components are packed separately.

Also, if for example, a hiker decides to switch from a lightweight fold-flat Platy to a heavier, hard-sided bottle in order to protect the screen or to house everything together, then I would count the added weight and space requirements against the Caldera system. This is why I said the Caldera system can be 3 times as bulky as other comparable solo alcohol systems.

So, in my long-winded way, I am saying that the Caldera system is not an inherently compact or lightweight system. Of course, I do recognize that the "packing everything together" method is not the only game on the trail. I also recognize that there are many other factors to consider in addition to weight and dimensions. Thus, OP should evaluate and prioritize his own needs and wants, including the gear that he's carrying or not carrying — when considering this cooking system.

So, the Tri-Ti arrived today (I really should have asked TD if I could get one “numbered”). I’m so stoked!

Okay, some initial impressions:

1) D@#$% the package was light… In fact, boxed up it weighed less than the half-empty pack of pampers wipes I needed to take back to my wife from when a friend watched our son for our anniversary. I would hasten to guess that the packaging / box it came in weighs nearly as much as the system itself.

Actually, I just checked the postal scale here at work, the weight of the Ti-Tri Caldera packaged up as shown on the TiGoat site, including the esbit kit + 3 tabs (basically everything that comes when you order it), but not including any alcohol, weighs 0.65 lbs (sorry I was NOT going to touch the units and get shipping mad at me, otherwise I’d post in oz)… the box + bubble wrap + instructions weighed 0.60 lbs… :D

2) Very nice finish, the Ti cone appears to be thinner material than my SP600 Al cone. At least it feels thinner / more pliable. (actually come to think of it, that’s still in my blazer so i’ll try to check that today too).

3) The pot is nice and thin. The only downside is that it doesn’t have measurement marks. However, if I pack with a ziploc 4-cup rater than that red cup (ala psuedo caldera kitchen), which I think should work, then I’ll have measurements.

Hopefully, I’ll be able to play with this soon (wife and I are gone a lot this month). I’ll try to get pics up soon as well (especially pics using the 4-cup). I’ll probably also compare the stakes to some of the ones I already carry.

Has anyone used a Trangia burner with the Caldera Cone?

I've used a Trangia for years, and am just now jumping in to light backpacking (where HAVE I been??), and am doing research on lightening my stove. I still like the Trangia's option to extinguish the burner, and also to simmer. Has anyone used a "Kookmaster" alcohol stove? Apparently it is lighter than a Trangia burner, but has the simmer ring and extinguisher. I've only seen mention to it on a UK website.

Thanks for any insights.

Anne

As a sales manager, there is no substitute for someone having a passionate belief in their product. There also is never any reason to speak negatively of your competition. Rand, you points/opinion are priceless! I appreciate your advice on things that I need to make sure I understand as make my buying decision.

There is rarely a perfect solution for any problem. Receiving advice from someone who is honest and who has integrity is sadly an exception in today's world.

Rand, from your perspective, what are the weaknesses of your system – I assume that some of them are dependant on the type/amount of cooking that someone is doing.

The CALDERA cone is wonderful. I have a lot of experience with it from a recent two week trip.

It is best when used as a tool on longer trips where the FUEL SAVINGS will pay off the most.

The kits do come with lots of extras that are NOT esential. All you really need is the CONE/windscreen that matches your pot and the tiny stove.

The other pieces are nice, but not essential.

M!

Mike C's comments are pretty spot on. If you have another fuel container, feel free to use it. Feel free to come up with your own packing methodology as well.

It is probably best to use the included stove as it's been tweaked for use in the environment. But I suspect a trangia might work okay in it. Though the included stove + a fuel bottle will be lighter…