“Performance” wool. What is the draw?

I agree Woubeir, will be interesting to see if there is a difference.

To sort of add to my others posts about blends–i also like the Dri Release Wool blends that i have (1 top, 1 bottom), but these only use about 11 to 12% wool to rest polyester and often a little spandex. Most of the odor control is not happening through the wool though, but from the oleo-phobic coating that they put on the synthetic fibers, which are "wrapped" with some of the Merino.

I guess the idea of the 11% or so Merino is to increase initial moisture absorption some and then have the polyester move it to the outside of the fabric. It's not a "spreading" though that happens with well wicking synthetics or say linen. While it might not dry quite as fast as a well wicking/moisture spreading 100% synthetic, i wonder if it's a bit warmer because it's wicking in a different way? If the surface area of moisture is not as increased, then less efficient evaporation and thus cooling will happen?

It's hard to say, but it may be that the wool does add a little to the odor reducing properties a bit, because on one trip, i wore the Merino Dri Release version top and my wife the cotton Dri Release version top, and the cotton one seemed to smell a bit more (though that may be accounted for in other ways too).

del

I've read that too, but how objective can they still be ?

i personally feel that ALOT of these woolly $$$$ things are marketing shenanigans to make their products seem "unique" and sell more widgets

leaving aside the "warm when wet" (you dont want to STAY wet, and those who do usually wear fleece/pile/synth in their modern jobs) … the only other "practical" reason for wool is odor control

with modern silver ions permanent treatments … IMO this dilute this advantage greatly in the coming years

of course there are "social" and "status" reason to owning those $$$$$$ merino wool name brand tops … its ironic that in vancouver bankbreaker and deadbird open their new stores not around other outdoor stores … but in the heart of a "trendy" shopping district that usually caters to fashion clothing … right next to that lululemon store …

i own merino which i reserve for social or urban travel situations … outside im wearing synth for the quick drying and durability … and if you need to replace it, it tends to be cheaper

the merino blends do hold promise … but then IMO those will be superseded by better synthetics anyways in the near future as well

keep in mind that the primary base/mid layers sales from perhaps the two often proclaimed "best" outdoor clothing companies are mostly fleece/synth … patagucci and dead bird, their sponsored athletes have quite a bit more fun than most of us in em

of course there will always be a market for merino … there will always be a group that wants to be seen wearing "natural" clothing

its the new bamboo

;)

hmmm … seems like my last response where i pointed out that fleece/synth/pile is used by folks that actually work in cold wet conditions like the bearing sea got deleted by someone

also where i pointed out that thinner merino (which needs to be thin to dry reasonably quick) has durability issues especially when wet ("warm not durable when wet")

or that moths like merino … as has happened to a BPLer recently

i guess taunts/tauts and complaining about "newbie questions" is merits a better place in a gear thread =P

"with modern silver ions permanent treatments … IMO this dilute this advantage greatly in the coming years"

While I don't have a merino shirt (yet), I do have a synth shirt with Polygiene. After only 4 days there was a distinct smell and discoloration in the areas where there was an accumulation of sweat. Now, while certainly not as bad as synth shirts without an odortreatment, I had hoped for more.

"the merino blends do hold promise … but then IMO those will be superseded by better synthetics anyways in the near future as well"

Well, who knows ? As long as there's no flash-of evaporation because sometimes that's not what I want.

Someone said:

"Merino wool's only advantage as a baselayer has been odor resistance…

"…The current crop of synthetics with Polygiene and other silver ion treatments do pretty well with odors resistance. They are thinner/lighter and dry so much faster that they can be washed during extended hikes to remove oils and salt too."

Agreed, along with Roger's comments. Even the most advanced wool baselayers barely graze the performance of the polyester stuff I can get at Target for 1/4 the price (now I sound like Eric Chan…). Step up the budget to brands like Patagonia, and wool is simply wrong.

If you want to embrace wool in a symbolic effort to reject petroleum-based products, fine (but be sure to walk to the trailhead, don't drive. Even your bicycle uses petro products). If you like the look and feel of wool, fine.

But please stop trying to justify wool baselayers based on technical performance. It just isn't there.

edit: spelling and 1 adjective

In compressive situations (socks)
Smell (even the silver stuff still reeks some (socks, t shirts)
Water repellant breathable, super breathable compared to DWR and calandared woven poly (gets heavy tho. so is more suitable for day activities such as hunting since it is also quiet)
biodegradable
can use less petroleum products to produce

I like it as a base layer to sleep in and as my second layer over my poly stuff in deep cold. Not what I would wear for water sports, too heavy when wet.

I'd add one more advantage of wool (and cotton) that no one has mentioned. It's flame retardant. I almost always camp where I can have campfires. I love them. It's half the joy of camping to me.

That said, some materials deal well with the occasional ember (thick wool or duck cotton work best). Some get a small hole (capilene). Some ignite and burn and burn (I have a synthetic and down sweater like this).

If weight were no issue, I'd probably wear filson's cotton and military wool all the time. But of course weight is an issue. Conclusion? Different gear for different situations. I live in the always rainy but rarely very cold pacific northwest, and, as a result, I really like really thick but light fleece for warm layers. It's light, unfortunately bulky, but works great for me not feeling cold and damp.

"But please stop trying to justify wool baselayers based on technical performance."

What is technical performance?

"The beta testing in Japan for this new Power Wool seems to show promise.

http://iceclimbingjapan.com/2014/05/01/polartec-power-wool/"

Interesting article, while reading it, i still kept thinking–why not add some wicking synthetic to the first, next to skin, wool layer as well? Like around 30% or so. Seems practical as far as increasing durability at the very least, nor will it increase stink much at all. Thin wool is very weak when wet, having a synthetic layer right next to and connected it will help a bit (especially from outside abrasion), but will not completely protect it.

"What is technical performance?"

[(moisture transport) + (drying time) + (weight)]

I dare to say management instead of transport

An interesting article from a very experienced outdoors person about wool. Don't agree with every single point, but he does make some interesting and good points, i think.

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_wonders_of_wool

Any update on Polartec Power Wool?  I haven’t seen much about it and the few pieces I have seen look thick and heavy.

I am debating now about a baselayer for an Alaska trip this summer. I have been debating on thin Polartec Power Dry (OR Echo) vs thin Wool/Poly blend (Patagonia Wool 1).  Both would be treated with Permethrin prior to the trip and worn for 12 days straight carrying a pack.  Temps could be anything but averaging 55-60* for the highs with humidity and frequent precipitation.

I am leaning toward Wool blend as I know quite a few people wear Wool in that environment (including Jorgen, Luc Mehl, and Skurka). I tend to sweat a lot.

… Polartec Power Dry (OR Echo)  …

The Echo’s don’t use Polartec-fabric.

They must be using a ripoff of power dry as it is a very light polyester gridded fabric that seems identical to the newest iteration of Patagonia’s lightweight Cap

Patagonia doesn’t mention Polartec as the fabric-source for their Capilene Lightweight.

KUIU makes some nice wool blend baselayers of varying weights, I’ve had good luck with my ultra merino 125 baselayer.

You’re right Patagonia makes no mention of Polartec on The Lightweight Cap like they do on the Medium and Thermal Weight.

I guess I am comparing a light polyester grid such as the OR Echo vs. a light Wool shirt or Wool/poly blend.

It’s not as if old Scotland had access to variety of fibers to construct their clothing.

Wool was in abundance and accessible, and worked well for the intended purpose. Probably the most common fabric in that region for clothes until England colonized India.

Wool was the default choice more than anything else.