May 14, 2014 at 7:49 am #1316809
I've been looking all over the place, and this looks like a nice easy place to start making a piece of kit that I want to use.
I understand Nobul 1 is not downproof, but for a synthetic quilt might this be a nice choice??? At least for the inside…maybe something a teesy bit more durable for the outside……
Then for the stuffing I was thinking Apex. Anyone have a good reason for me to choose something different? I want a warm-weather quilt, so basically the smallest level of insulation here. maybe a 50 degree??
I can't decide if I want the footbox sewn or not – I think I want it open with the ability to cinch it down at the foot (snap with a drawcord, nothing more).
Anyone have any tips/things I should watch out for?? Any other recommendations for fabric?? I'm super sensitive to harsh/plasticky nylons and prefer those butter-soft ones to anything else. I'm a huge fan of the pertex quantum/equilibrium stuff, but I wonder if the Nobul might be a good choice given the synthetic insulation….
Anyway – all i've sewn so far is a bunch of stuff sacks, so it's time to go big now. Besides, I need to stay away from Chaff. It just stresses me out.May 14, 2014 at 7:53 am #2102272
@stephen-mLocale: Way up North
A 50f apex quilt may not be warm enough for you at 50f, I know I wouldfreeze my ass off in my 50f apex at the suggested temp.May 14, 2014 at 8:02 am #2102277
@lunchandynnerLocale: Pacific Northwest
Nobul should be fine. Argon .67 is great stuff, too, from what I gather. I love impetus 1.0, it is silky smooth and feels great.
As Stephen said, Apex 2.5 may not be enough for you, I believe OWF Inc has 3.0 and 4.0, and either of those may be a good option.
Another way would be to double up the insulation over the torso (hand stitch a few spots along the edge of the second piece to stabilize)/thighs and at the feet, while leaving the edges along the side single layer.
Won't need extra layer at the feet if you have extra clothes or nice socks. Also, can use the 2.5 if you plan on wearing most of your clothes if it gets chilly.May 14, 2014 at 9:11 am #2102319
I have Nobul1 for both down and synthetic. Great for synthetic. At least the batch I got leaks a bit of down so maybe I wouldn't use it for that.
For a quilt, Nobul1 on the outside would be fine as far as durability goes. It's not as water resistant as M50 though if that's important. Nobul1 is somewhat water resistant.
I have quilt of 2.5 oz Apex, doubled up on top half, good maybe down to 32 F if I'm wearing some stuff inside. I would think straight 2.5 oz Apex would be good down to 50 F but you'de probably have to wear some insulation inside.
I'm sort of of a mind that if a quilt or bag has more than 2.5 oz Apex, it weighs too much and is too bulky in my pack, so I would rather have down.May 14, 2014 at 10:55 am #2102356
If the temps might dip that low I'll bring my 20 deg quilt. What I'm looking for is basically a step up from a light fleece throw – sometimes in the summer the nights don't even get out of the 70s. Too chilly for nothing – and for some reason I'm one of those people who need to have something draped on top of me.
So I really am looking for just a teeny bit more insulation than I would find in the nylon alone. So I would think the lightest/thinnest apex would be fine for that.
Or am I wrong???May 14, 2014 at 10:57 am #2102358
I used my 2.5 apex quilt down into the mid 40s with hat, long pants, socks, LS merino 150 and nano puff. I sleep pretty cold too.
i used the Sin50 design with M90/M90T(inside). velcro/drawcord footbox 12oz
I used this except i used newspaper instead of the nylon pieces for the sewing machine foot to slide on over the insulation. once sewn the newspaper pulls right off. I also used only the main quilt pieces and just folded the seams up to make the drawcord foot. I skipped the drawcord for the top since i don't use it. I just sewed the velcro straight on, no extra pieces.May 14, 2014 at 11:11 am #2102364
I think you're right
Lightest Apex is what you want
Fleece is heavy for the warmth, only good for hat or gloves, synthetic much betterMay 14, 2014 at 12:15 pm #2102389
@detroittigerfanLocale: Ann Arbor
I made a really simple summer quilt last year. Used 4oz Apex, Pertex/Momentum type outer fabric (got it from OWFINC, I'm pretty sure) and Habotai silk (8mm) for the inside lining. Sewn shaped footbox but no other loops, cords, snaps, etc. I think the total material cost was about $75 (including shipping.)
Finished weight is 16oz. Packs down to the same size as a 45deg 800-fill down bag that I have, maybe a little bigger than a football.
I wasn't aggressive about making it the cheapest/lightest/smallest, so those factors could probably be improved, but it only took a couple of hours to make and I'm happy with the result. I use it for warm summer temps, 60+. I would be cold at 50 without significant extra layers.May 16, 2014 at 5:10 am #2102813
I am interested in using it for warm summer nights…
Would it be a good idea to perhaps double up the apex over the core? Or perhaps use a heavier version? Now you guys have me a bit worried that 2.5 will be relatively worthless for me.May 16, 2014 at 5:49 am #2102814
I think 2.5 is plenty.. you can wear your insulation layers, add a hat, etc to beef it up if needed. I used mine on the Long trail in 3 sided shelters in early Aug. temps into the 40s at night. had to wear my long sleeve baselayer and smartwool sweater sometimes but other times not.
most people call apex 5.0 30* at leastMay 16, 2014 at 6:38 am #2102826
@aroth87Locale: Missouri Ozarks
I think you'll be fine with 2.5oz Apex as well. Mine is good into the 40's with a light baselayer and a hat for me. Maybe a light fleece top if I'm feeling extra chilly.
I just used 1.1oz ripstop for my quilt so can't offer any input on fabric choice but did use the Sin50 quilt instructions as a starting point for my quilt. I made mine a couple inches wider but did use the velcro flap and drawcord tubes which I really like. I also added some snaps on grosgrain ribbon at the neck and above and below the zipper.
The best advice I saw was to put newspaper between the insulation and foot to keep it from catching. It helped tremendously. I also used clothes pins to hold all the layers together instead of pins and it worked great. The last little trick I used was scotch taping the drawcord tubes and velco flap in place. It held through all the flipping and spinning and kept everything lined up perfectly.
I took a few pictures during my build.
I think you'll do fine. Just be patient sewing the insulation, I get frustrated easily and only yelled at the machine a couple of times :)
AdamMay 16, 2014 at 6:45 am #2102830
I think that just 2.5 is fine. That will be a good summer quilt and you will find how cold you can use it for and if it's going to be colder, use a different quilt/bag.
I did a quilt with one layer of 2.5 on the leg half, and two layers on the torso half. That works too. But the bag starts getting so heavy and bulky, maybe down would be better.May 16, 2014 at 7:20 am #2102839
OK, thanks. I'll order the materials this week and get going!
Thanks guys!May 16, 2014 at 8:23 am #2102861
@awsorensenLocale: South of Forester Pass
Go with the Argon .67 in and out.
It is a great material. Hands down better than Nobul1 IMO (and cheaper).
More color options as well.
I like to go with Nobul2 on the inside for synthetic as it is silky soft, but it is much more fragile.
M50 is good for more windy damp conditions, but it has the plastic feel.
The 2.5 insulation can be taken appart in 4 to 5 different layers.
If you ordered another yard, it would be easy to just add a layer if you wanted to.May 16, 2014 at 8:28 am #2102864
I agree, M50 is better for wet. I can have water puddled on it for days without leaking through. But if rain drops fall on it it will leak.May 16, 2014 at 12:41 pm #2102978
how soft is the hand for .67 argon?? And where do I get it??? I haven't seen it at the usual places (but then again, I'm still learning the usual spots…)
So perhaps not a good idea for Nobul2 on the inside and Argon on the outside? Or Momentum 90 on the outside maybe??
I will be sleeping in either a duomid or the solplex, so I'm pretty sheltered from rain. Condensation and a muddy puppy not so much though……
I'm VERY sensitive to the plasticky nylons. Can't stand them….May 16, 2014 at 12:42 pm #2102980May 16, 2014 at 2:42 pm #2103036
I think any DWR is good enough if you're fairly protected under tarp – nobul1, I assume argon is similar
If you get quite a bit of moisture, the M50 is much better. I puddled water on top of nobul1 and M50. After a few minutes, the water leaked through the nobul1. After as few days the M50 still didn't leak so I stopped test. M90 is supposed to be good too.
If you have rain falling on you, like a bivy without tarp, the M50 leaks, you need Event, Gore-tex, or the like. The rain drop has a large velocity when it hits fabric, which exerts a lot of water pressure, so water gets through. According to Richard, you need HH of 1500 which is greater than any of the non membrane fabrics. Although I've only tested a few.May 16, 2014 at 4:15 pm #2103079
I've made 4 quilts with synthetic insulation. The Argon fabric from Dutchware Gear is very nice. I'm sure the M90 from Thru-Hiker is great as well. I didn't find much of a difference in difficulty dealing with the Argon vs regular Ripstop. I used the Kringlelight directions and EE measurements. I just built two summer quilts with Argon .67 and Apex 2.5. Weighs 11.25 oz. Simple sewn toolbox about 6" up the bottom side. No drawstring and no pad attachments. I pinned it together apex/argon/argon. I've never had a problem sewing with the insulation directly on the feed dogs. Leave about 12" unsewn at the bottom and turn it inside it and finish sewing. Very easy.
All that being said, and owning an Enlightened Equipment 20° Revelation, I wouldn't tackle a down quilt, nor one with zippers and draw cords again myself. Tim's work is just amazing and my time is worth a lot to me.May 16, 2014 at 5:06 pm #2103106
@cameronLocale: Midland, Texas
Jennifer I have a BPL quilt that I believe uses 2.5 or something similar. I've gone a bit below 40 with it (with a down vest and hat) so you should be fine. I'm a big fan of it for warm summer months. It saves wear and tear on my other quilts and it only weighs 11 or 12 oz.May 16, 2014 at 6:52 pm #2103149
delMay 16, 2014 at 7:49 pm #2103179
well she did say she liked something draped over her.. which i also like so i can appreciate that.
sleeping in rain gear.. ugh.. no thanks.. way too humid here for that.May 16, 2014 at 8:51 pm #2103204
delMay 17, 2014 at 1:01 am #2103242
I mostly agree with Rick, but a couple of things to consider. Jen might be an unusually cold sleeper, and there is a certain comfort aspect to having something draped over you that is a strong habit in most. If you're not too cold of a sleeper, i would go with Rick's advice and just add a layer of UL fabric to drape over you like a sheet at home, or super simple bivy in the style of a mummy liner (better for drafts, etc than a "sheet").
At the same time, a simple, synthetic quilt is a good way to get into more serious MYOG, so i'm all for that idea. Adding all the bells and whistles of zippered footbox, draw cord close, straps, etc can be more of pain in the butt, but really for a summer quilt, you don't need all that stuff. Just have it wide enough (so you can wrap it around you if need be), and at the foot area taper it some and sew a small piece of extra flap of fabric at the foot end (around the perimeter) on the bottom, so you can stick your feet in or not. Keeping it simple and easy will also keep it a bit lighter and cheaper. Either you will get bitten by the MYOG bug big time like a number of people here have, or you will realize that it's not for you, but at least you haven't wasted too much time or gotten too frustrated meanwhile.May 17, 2014 at 5:26 am #2103265
For you sleeping in your clothes might work..
but i think what if it rains and some stuff gets wet. or the temps drop more than you thought. you feel pretty stupid freezing your ass off when you could have carried a 12oz quilt and been comfortable. not carrying a quilt of some type i think merges into the stupid light category. pretty sure that was one of Skurka's examples when he left his quilt at home on one of his speed attempts and hated life for a few days.
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