Rational Solo Fear

I think the objection is to the "Second Amendment fetish" comment which implies that those who exercise their Constitutional right are somehow unsavory and/or prone to criminality.

At least that's what I infer.

Would it be any better if the drunken yahoo in the pickup had a club or a knife?

When I was in Anchorage for work a few years ago, the day I arrived there had been a grizzly attack on 2 mountain bikers, one of whom died and the other badly injured. I'll bet they wish there had been somebody nearby with a Second Amendment fetish.

Speaking as someone exercises the Second Amendment, used to drive a pickup, and has emptied a few beer cans in the woods, I take absolutely no offense from Jennifer's characterization. If I was a lone woman in the woods, I wouldn't like me much either.

Michael,
it isn't the fear that makes it need to go to chaff. it is the characterization of

as the person to fear. Completely unfounded and biased.

Fetish – "a strong and unusual need or desire for something."

When you add the qualifier "a strong and unusual need or desire for something" I think fear is well founded.

No one is saying all 2nd Amendment folks are to be feared, just deranged drunks with guns.

Well I just have drunk fetishes in the woods so I guess I'm ok.

"It's a legitimate fear, IMHO."

+1

I would say, in the case of a single woman, that while it is not proof positive of a threat, it would be prudent to go to amber alert status in that kind of situation.

Maybe even be prepared to exercise her own 2nd Amendment rights if she is of that persuasion.

Beyond me why a non polemical comment like Jennifer's should condemn a thread to CHAFF.

Sort of an inverted political correctness hanging in the air here, IMO.

'"The danger here is slipping, hitting my head, becoming unconscious, ….."

How would having a partner mitigate that risk?'

I can think of a few potential ways:

1) I start to fall, partner grabs me and saves me from falling and hitting my head, becoming unconsious, etc. I have been grabbed as I started to fall – PROBABLY it would not have been a serious fall, but there are always those freak accidents. Admittedly, the possibility of a companion actually preventing the serious injury is slim, but it exists.

2) I start to do something and my partner sees what I do not, that I am doing something that will potentially cause a fall, and tells me so, thereby averting my falling, hitting my head, etc.

2) I fall, become unconscious, my partner assesses the situation and summons assistance (via electronic device, or just by running for the nearest place to summon help), and I am airlifted out in time…versus I fall, remain unconscious and die of dehydration/hypothermia/cerebral swelling/take your pick and am found a few days later (dead) by the next person along the trail, or I fall down a slope off the trail and am found (or not) months later by some unlucky person.

I've encountered people carrying guns a few times.

It makes me a bit uneasy.

But they've always been friendly, no reason to be fearful. Even after my lame jokes about not telling them where any deer are that I've seen.

I don't think it would be any different for a woman.

There are unofficial, probably illegal target shooting locations. I think maybe it would be best to avoid these. More likely to get into trouble.

"How would having a partner mitigate that risk?"

I think the reverse may be true

When I'm by myself I am more careful, thus less likely to hurt myself.

And yeah, a lot of times having someone else won't change things, still dead.

"2nd amendment fetish"

Eh, that particular epithet used regularly enough that I think it's worth a bit of self-reflection on whether it's an appropriate comment, or just an easy ad hominem dismissal of those on the other side of that issue.

To take a slightly less inflammatory example, that of SUV owners, it's popular in liberal areas to refer to them as "compensating" for something. It too comes up regularly enough in such areas to be rather annoying even if one agrees that SUVs are generally dangerous and unnecessary.

And Jennifer, I know how much you like that deer costume of yours, but there are some places you might not want to wear it….

“No one is saying all 2nd Amendment folks are to be feared, just deranged drunks with guns.”

That isn’t how it comes across. Come on -the fact is that most of those people are only met at trailheads or drive in campgrounds. Most of BPL is camping away from these areas and therefore more likely to run into creeps that also backpack. You know the opposite of 2nd Amendment proponents.

Also I believe that if you look at the reaction to the comment you can see why it should go to Chaff. It is like starting a hunting thread.

“Beyond me why a non polemical comment like Jennifer's should condemn a thread to CHAFF.”

Her post is as divisive as it gets. The proof is in the pudding!

I don't think it would be any different for a woman.

Jerry, with respect, unless you've been perceived as a woman in such a situation (I'm guessing not), you really have no basis for this comparison.

As for Jennifer's "inflammatory" comment, there's a saying: if it's not about you, it's not about you. If you've never lived in an area where yahoos drive down dirt tracks to get drunk and shoot shit, then I guess you're lucky (and if you only backpack in totally roadless areas, luckier still)…and then maybe you should stop defending said yahoos. Jen's comment had shit-all to do with insulting gun owners at large and everything to do with describing a specific type of unsavory person that people (lone women especially) may have cause to fear. If you're not that type of person…it ain't about you.

6th generation Texan here. Been hunting and shooting weapons since I was 6 years old. Had my own arsenal (22 rifle and .410) hanging on my wall rack when I was 9 and spent 4 years and one month in the service.

My 2nd amendment credentials are impeccable but I keep it real.

If you grew up with guns and have been around guns your whole life then I call BS on you if you say you've never been around someone that has no business handling a weapon even if the 2nd amendment gives them the right.

All of us have different social and physical skills all packed into one little amendment. Skilled, knowledgeable, considerate gun owners share the amendment with dummies, klutzes, nervous and non criminal ignorant fools.

A little rational fear is not a bad thing and very appropriate in a thread named "Rational Solo Fear".

Just keeping it real.

It's about the risk of water. No, my partner can't prevent me from slipping and hitting my head. He can prevent me from drowning. Maybe not in all situations, especially if someone gets caught in a swift current. But it still increases your safety tremendously.

Having a partner around water is something that my parents taught me at an early age.

The call for Chaff was appropriate IMO not because there was something wrong with what Jennifer said, but because there will be dialogue about it ( which is good) and maybe less than civilized responses on either part. Yes, the proof is in this pudding.
Any stereotyping will get some push back; it just works that way.
Does not take much to get all chaffy these days, even if one does not intend to.

Of course idiots have guns, but "guy with a 2nd amendment fetish and a pickup truck full of empty beer cans deciding that I am a target of opportunity." is intentionally inflammatory.

I know lots of people that have guns and beer cans. That doesn't make them dangerous to lone women. They are more likely to help a stranded motorist or offer a beer to a weary traveler. It was a provocative comment by an extreme left wing poster. It has derailed the thread. Multiple people called it.

Michael, I am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment and was a little irked at that statement. But there is no need to derail the thread because of it. Just ignore it and move on.

Once again a bunch of mostly men pontoficating on a an issue they can barely imagine or shifting the focus. I agree the terminology she used was over the top but somehow I got it without having a fit. I think I have to give any woman a full pass on this issue, shut up and listen, and would frankly be embarrassed to get all pissy when one gets hyperbolic on the issue of fears of this type. Context is important.

Face it guys we are as a general rule pigs and it may be the best policy under certain special circumstances to shut up and smile. They have a lot more shit on us than we ever will have on them. ;-)

I'm sure she would admit that in reality she would on average be way more likely to be helped than hurt be someone resembling the person she described. This issue of fears was being discussed and like it or not sterotupes are a big part of that

"Interestingly the only thing I've ever been afraid of in the woods are creepy guys."

Jennifer I had a laugh at this! I'm right there with you. I probably have what might be considered an unhealthy-lack-of-fear of wildlife (except for grizzlies…) but the elusive "creepy dude" – especially one that is drunk. This is one creature that my NOLS course did not prepare me for.

Pepper spray is a decent idea – though it does suck if it would ever have to come to that. Depending on the area I'm heading and how remote, it's not a bad idea. Or I can just work on some ninja training and save the weight (wouldn't that be awesome?).

Idunno Mark, you ever see deliverance?

I've been sexually harassed before by creepy gay men before, it's less common but it does happen.

Let me try a different approach, I'm not going to bash Jennifer because I doubt she meant harm. I'm not going to bash those who bashed her because I understand where they are coming from.

For those of you not living in a gun filled red state allow me to educate you…

When people who support a traditional reading of the 2nd Amendment see comments like Jennifer's they immediately think of all the nasty things they've been called in the gun control debate. And there thought is "That is one of the people who thinks we're all a bunch of drunk rednecks driving beat up trucks and shooting anything that moves. And she probably thinks we live in trailers, marry our cousins and get fat drinking beer on flee infested sofas. And she'll probably say we love our guns more then our kids because we didn't support Obama's gun control push."

Jennifer did not say all those things but the words she used would remind you of those who do, hence the reaction she got.

Jennifer probably spoke in ignorance but she touched a raw nerve with people who feel like they aren't being treated with any kind of respect. Hopefully we as a country learn to be more tolerant of people we disagree with.

Edit – I changed this again just to be clear I am NOT implying that this list is what Jennifer or anyone here is saying. But its the conglomeration of what gun owners have been hearing lately. Intentional or not she hit a sore spot for many people.

> How would having a partner mitigate that risk?

They might, for instance, have a mobile phone?
Or at least a tent?

Cheers

Luke all true, and well said. Just be careful you don't in turn stereotype the people you are claiming oppose you. The person you describe above, if you could find one that thinks all that, is exactly as representative of those folks as a group, and what that actually think, as Jennifer's straw man. Both are on the tails of the tails of the bell curve. Now that you are both on the same level maybe let it drop my brother.

"I probably have what might be considered an unhealthy-lack-of-fear of wildlife (except for grizzlies…)"

I get the creepers just looking at your bear photo. At least I'd faint & be unconscious for the mauling?

I don't know about all the chaff stuff – personally not all that sensitive that way – but I, as a guy, have run into a similar scenario (minus, I hope, the sexual intent – never really thought about that part).

Came up on 5 or 6 "hunters" – drunk as skunks – and obviously bored since I seemed to be a source of amusement. They wanted to "check out" my pack & gear, pulling at it, laughing, etc. I'm not gonna lie, I'm not an easy target but was more than a little worried. Nothing came of it, but didn't feel right until getting around a bend without any firearms going off. Keep in mind, I'm also in Arizona (okay, that might be chaff). :)

So yea, I'd say rational fear. Probably stats on harm caused by people vs. grizzlies somewhere around here ….

Point taken and edited for clarity Marko, and just to rephrase I do not think that long list of insults is what Jennifer was going for. Its what someone might carelessly read into her comment.

"They wanted to "check out" my pack & gear, pulling at it, laughing, etc."

It's all in good fun until one of them tells you that you have a "purdy mouth". When that happens jump on the back of the nearest Grizzly and ride it to safety.

Yep, got all my over the top stereotypes from Deliverance, like Justin. ;-)

Yeah Luke, I might be wrong but I took her initial comment as a combo of fear, and an almost "standup comic" throwaway stereotype line. These things don't really come off all that well on line. It would have been funny said in a certain tone of voice.