May 7, 2014 at 9:40 am #1316559
Pictures up on TT website. Avail for summer 14May 7, 2014 at 10:13 am #2100184
Philip TschersichBPL Member
@philip-akLocale: Kodiak Alaska
That thing looks absolutely palatial. Good stuff.May 7, 2014 at 10:55 am #2100199
David NollBPL Member
@dpnollLocale: Maroon Bells
Sweet!May 7, 2014 at 11:01 am #2100201
Michael GartmanBPL Member
@namtragLocale: Flatlands of Virginia
I am glad this had not yet been publicized when we bought our Stratospire 2. It took us weeks of agonizing to decide between it and the Lunar Duo. Adding another choice would have been even more agonizing!May 7, 2014 at 11:11 am #2100206
Nice! 52oz with stakes and support struts, 48oz when trekking pole supported. Edit: Pretty competitive with a lot of the 2-door, DW, freestanding tents that are fully storm worthy. About on par with a Hubba Hubba NX for weight and heavier than a BA Copper spur UL2 but I'm sure far stronger and with more headroom. Certainly much more storm and wind worthy than an REI Dash 2.
It looks like it doesn't have the crossing pole options like the Moment DW for snow loading which is a bit sad. I'm sure this tent is much more weather stable that most of the competition.
Also, anyone have experience setting up a Moment DW with just the inner bug netting? I found that on the TT Notch it requires extra lines and is more complicated than I had hoped. For a 2-person DW shelter, I'd really like to pitch it without the rain fly off but know that should a storm come in at night I could put it up very quickly like with more traditional DW tents.May 7, 2014 at 11:23 am #2100209
Eric LundquistBPL Member
@cobbermanLocale: Northern Colorado
Andrew it looks like it has the necessary attachment points for the optional crossing pole from the photographs.May 7, 2014 at 1:34 pm #2100236
I wonder about wind stability with those larger panels. Probably comparable to other DW shelters on the market in the same weight category? I know the 1P is pretty good on wind stability, but those large end panels make me wonder about this one. Any preliminary field testing done on this yet?May 7, 2014 at 2:12 pm #2100251
Yeah. I may be in the minority here, but I think it looks awkward and imbalanced. Even if just aesthetically.May 7, 2014 at 3:14 pm #2100264
Alex WallaceBPL Member
@feetfirstLocale: Sierra Nevada North
Yeah, kind of like a Porsche SUV; it's cool, but not sexy like a Carrera (Moment 1P).May 7, 2014 at 3:29 pm #2100265
The Double Moment will take an X pole like the Moment does.
Here is another view , might give a better idea of its shape :
This is the Momend DW inner only :
Tarptents are designed to be set up keeping the inside dry, so fly first or fly and inner together.
They are not made to have the inner up and then add a "rainfly"
Neither version works best for everybody .May 7, 2014 at 3:37 pm #2100268
Nathan WernetteBPL Member
agreed, I just bought the strat2 and its final! though this thing looks awesome too!May 7, 2014 at 3:58 pm #2100274
I am probably the only one that is disappointed. I wanted something just like the moment but just a bit wider to fit 2 20" pads. This is much bigger and much heavier. It will likely fit for more people's needs than what I wanted would have… I always seem to want something different than "everyone" else. ;^)
Oh well, TarpTent has plenty of other options. :^)May 7, 2014 at 4:27 pm #2100281
> I wanted something just like the moment but just a bit wider to fit 2 20" pads.
That's exactly what it is. The ends are/had to be 2x wider (20"–>40"), the middle is 23% wider (42" –>52"), and the arch pole geometry scaled up 20% (120" –> 144"). Until you get your head into the geometry, especially arch pole scaled geometry, you might not understand what it means to scale up the Moment DW to fit two but I can tell you that there just isn't any other scaling method that works to provide room for two full pads and vestibules on both sides.
-HMay 7, 2014 at 5:21 pm #2100291
"Until you get your head into the geometry…"
Well, that is part of the problem; I've never designed a tent in my life. ;^) It seemed to me that the width at the middle and the height of the ends could have stayed the same with only the width at the ends changing, and of course the shape of the end triangles. But, I have NO IDEA what that would do the the geometry of the tent. I just need a good CAD program (or whatever people use these days) to see it. But I certainly trust that you know what you are talking about. You have plenty of initiative tents to prove it. :^)
Edited: BTW, the second vestibule is something I would sacrifice for a significant weight savings (assuming it changed the geometry enough to make a significant savings). An example of how I don't fit the norm.May 7, 2014 at 11:28 pm #2100368
Here is a simple way to approximate what Henry was explaining.
Start with the DM floor plan :
print that out and cut out the space 2x std mats take (the grey rectangular shape inside the floor on athe bove drawing is a 20×70 mat).
overlay that double mat onto the drawing and now add some lines from the pole ends to the rear end .
Make sure you leave some space outside the mat area for the sloping walls and then some space between the inner and the fly.
This will not give you an accurate 3d view but should make the wider ends bit more obvious.May 8, 2014 at 9:52 am #2100462
> It seemed to me that the width at the middle and the height of the ends could have stayed the same with only the width at the ends changing, and of course the shape of the end triangles.
Could it be done, yes. Should it be done, definitely not. It would be a hideous disaster of a tent. The wall angles at head level would get ridiculously shallow, the fabric would press down on your face, and it would be virtually impossible to sit up from a prone position.
> BTW, the second vestibule is something I would sacrifice for a significant weight savings (assuming it changed the geometry enough to make a significant savings).
-HMay 8, 2014 at 10:00 am #2100463
Is it possible for Henry or Franco to put up a picture with the x-pole attached? Thanks.
I currently have a Scarp 1P with the updated fly, but due to a health issue cannot do winter trips anymore so the tent is a bit 'overkill' and I'm thinking of selling it.. I like the dimensions/weight of this one and the x-pole would give the stability I prefer in high wind/rain. The interior dimensions would also allow me to use it with my wife on occasion. I had thought of getting one of the 'Stratos' but I prefer the esthetics of this one.May 8, 2014 at 10:08 am #2100464
> Is it possible for Henry or Franco to put up a picture with the x-pole attached?
Will do. That's a weekend task.May 8, 2014 at 1:14 pm #2100520
@fluffinreach-comLocale: no. california
when constrcting something 3D like a tent, each panel will have 3 to perhaps 6 edges. each edge will have a length, and worse, most lengths will have a curve. any change of either results in changes to the angls of intrsection with the other panels.
now.. every angle, and length, and curve, hides demons that will not be apparent until you build it and they appear. eventually you may learn enough to see most of them early on, but they just get better at hiding.
with "luck", and then a very large pile of prototypes, you occasionally find that you have worked yourself right around in a huge circle, are back near the beginning.
fabricators who have done this are considered "experienced".
along the way, everyody that formely liked you in the now distant past, will in no way, even under penalty of death, ask you about your "new design".
that's ok, they don't "get it", and even if they did, they univrsally lack the tenacity to proceed oorretly in making that last half a dozen beta units for the purpose of refinement. this is because during project developement, your friends turn into wussys. they were probably weakminded to start with, and a decent project simply brings in out in them.
v.May 8, 2014 at 2:13 pm #2100539
Thank you Henry, sorry to be a 'PIA'.May 8, 2014 at 2:27 pm #2100545
Paul HatfieldBPL Member
I think Henry had this in the works for at least 4 years, so I'm sure it's well thought out.
Personally I don't find it nearly as aesthetically pleasing as the Moment 1P or the Scarp 2P, but it's a victim of geometry. If I owned one, perhaps I would name it "Big Bertha".
> BTW, the second vestibule is something I would sacrifice
> for a significant weight savings
Well the Force Ten Helium Carbon 200 Tent has one vestibule:
It's probably more like a 1.5 person tent.
Going larger, the Vaude Power Lizard SUL 2-3P has a wider floor than the TarpTent and weighs a claimed 44 oz:
In addition to comparing tents with similar pole structures, it's interesting to compare tents of similar weights. The GoLite Imogene UL 3P comes to mind, which gives a lot more floor area, but less ventilation options. The Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 is just about the same weight too.May 8, 2014 at 3:59 pm #2100574
Bob BankheadBPL Member
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
Is the process for shelters anything like headnets?
BobMay 8, 2014 at 5:18 pm #2100604
Always horses for courses.
If you try to squeeze in two person inside the lightest design the DM is not it..
But if you do you may just end up having something that looks like this :
On the other hand, the larger Vaude Power Lizard SUL 2-3P is listed at 505 euro, about $700USD, having one entry point only will not work for some anyway.
DM : Double Moment
(one of the tents discussed in this thread)May 8, 2014 at 6:59 pm #2100639
Paul HatfieldBPL Member
What is DM?
Yeah, the inner of the Force Ten Helium Carbon 200 Tent is probably the same width at the ends as the Vango Helium Superlite 200: 80 cm (31.5 inches)
I see the Vaude Power Lizard SUL 2-3P from a retailer for $405. I can't find any reviews of it though.
There's also the Robens' Buzzard:
http://www.robens.de/en/Products/Tents/Lite/Buzzard.aspxMay 13, 2014 at 10:30 am #2101986
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I'm not trying to say that the Double Moment should have been designed differently. It's just that I can't have what I want and I'm whining!
And thanks Henry and Franco for the tent design lesson. I now have a better understanding of why it was made the way it was. The tent fabric at the ends being “in your face” comment made the design make sense to me.
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