Apr 28, 2014 at 12:31 pm #1316176
Question out there. I know money and budgets are a factor, but do you take into consideration where your items are made.
For example. I just bought a pair of Black Diamond soft-shell pants. good deal through REI clearance racks, not overly impressed with them but hey, they fit!
Came home saw that they were made in Bangladesh. Which reminded me of the textile mill collapse last year? and the conditions that people have to work in to make some of our clothing.
Do you guys take in to consideration where an item is made? or what the company is doing (or claiming they are doing) to help out their employees? I have been trying to be more gear conscious lately. Its expensive, but I want to help support companies that support their workers, take responsibility in where they get their materials and all.
Additionally, if anyone has companies that fit the bill list them here! I would like to know. Not just outdoor gear but anything!Apr 28, 2014 at 1:14 pm #2097249
This is one reason I love ZPacks. Everything is made in their workshop in Florida.Apr 28, 2014 at 1:42 pm #2097264
Matt DirksenBPL Member
@namelesswayLocale: Mid Atlantic
+1 to Zpacks.
and Luke's Ultralight
and the list of cottage companies goes on.
Although just because I shop at my local farmer's market doesn't mean I'm getting organic/fairtrade/cradle to cradle/ etc…
One thing is local/ethical assembly, another is the manufacturing of the materials being assembled. And their work ethics, and carbon footprint, and toxicity.
There's a whole lot to to contemplate on this topic. And so I ask my clients before designing an addition: "What is your shade of green?"Apr 28, 2014 at 3:47 pm #2097300
Trace RichardsonBPL Member
@tracedefLocale: Southern California
In a perfect world, I would prefer to buy all US made products. I want my dollars going into our national and local economies.
That being said, not buying something from a foreign country does not necessarily mean I'm aiding people that may be working in horrendous conditions. The opposite could be true…. a legitimate factory with hard working people making a fair wage to support their family could be hurt by the loss of business …. Maybe there's a better chance of not aiding the bad players by staying away from countries of manufacture that have poor records? I don't know ….
The point being, not all overseas factories are sweatshops with horrendous conditions and the OP's questions is extremely to hard to answer given the limited information we have as consumers apart from the country of manufacture …Apr 28, 2014 at 4:07 pm #2097304
Valerie EBPL Member
@wildtownerLocale: Grand Canyon State
This is really a tough one, because (like so many things in life) it's a lot more complicated than it seems at first.
[Note: just because something is complex and hard to understand doesn't mean that we shouldn't *try* to do the "right thing", but my point is that even when you're trying your best, you may not fully succeed.)
Ok, let's take Z-packs for example… Great — they design, cut, and assemble in the USA. But where do they source their materials? Does the down in their quilts come from US sources? What about the fabrics they use? You see where I'm going with this…
At some point, components of even "locally made" products have probably been imported from overseas. And just because a particular country had a disaster in a factory doesn't mean that all their factories are run exactly the same way, with exactly the same (lack of) standards.
Many of these questions were covered in the thread about the "Faux-dini". Even in countries with bad working conditions, the local people often have very few alternatives (other than starvation), and factory jobs, no matter how horrible, may be their family's first step towards financial independence for later generations.
If you use "reductio ad absurdum" for these arguments, you'll probably have to go naked, because it's REALLY difficult to find people in the US who raise their own sheep, card and spin the wool, weave their own fabric, and sew it into garments.
So you'll probably never be able to buy only "morally perfect" outdoor products, but I applaud you for doing your best to be conscious of other peoples' life conditions.Apr 28, 2014 at 5:24 pm #2097330
yes its impossible to find clothing, gear, anything? that is 100% sourced and made in the US.
I can only trust that companies like Patagonia, North Face, MHW, etc, is making an effort to source their materials from responsible places. I kind of like Patagonia's marketing of what they are doing, they SEEM really transparent on their improvements and sustainability commitments. But so does most outdoor companies.Apr 28, 2014 at 6:34 pm #2097362
I try to buy everything from the US. I have pride in our country and I like to support it! :DApr 28, 2014 at 6:44 pm #2097364
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
I prioritize buying from the U.S. rather than countries that have a large trade imbalance, especially China. It's good for both of our economies to have balanced trade.Apr 28, 2014 at 9:09 pm #2097421
I once bought a bandana with an American flag pattern that said MADE IN AMERICA printed on it. It felt good.
When my wife spent a summer in New Delhi, she bought me a bandana with a flag of India pattern on it that said "I AM PRODE OF MY COUNTRY" in prominent words around the spinning chakra. It was made in Bangladesh. So yeah.Apr 28, 2014 at 9:45 pm #2097433
Brian JohnsBPL Member
I generally try to buy US-made products. I am usually successful. Not all countries have sweatshops, but it's about more than that. We recently bid 20% over for a home and were second in line for the purchase. We didn't get it. The all cash offer of Chinese Yuan was too hard to pass up, even though we had a great meeting with the sellers who were visibly upset. Down 101 a bit in Silicon Valley, there are tour busses driving around groups of Chinese investors shopping for California residential real estate. Anyway, I've always been an internationalist. I still am, but when you invest as heavily in cheap labor as we have in the last two decades you don't only underfund their population, you underfund your own and create a variety of economic disadvantages. Just my $0.02. You can't buy (or I can't afford) a Made in USA computer, though. So some things leave us with little choice, at least if we want to be on BPL.Apr 29, 2014 at 3:12 am #2097478
Stephen ParksBPL Member
Did you need those pants in the first place?Apr 29, 2014 at 6:09 am #2097497
@anarkhosLocale: Colorado, Wyoming
"Did you need those pants in the first place?"
This could easily thread drift into a moral minimalism dilemma and super mega anti-consumerism rant, but I haven't had enough coffee imported from Columbia and purchased at Costco to get into that right now…
YES, it is possible to purchase 100% locally sourced clothing in the US. Here in Colorado, land of the uber hippie, I can find several local (read: Front Range CO) farmers that raise their own sheep and alpaca. They either spin the wool themselves, or sell it to another local craftsman who does and then makes every kind of wool garment form socks to sweaters to hats, etc.
We have local crafts fairs, some of which ONLY allow hand made products. One year the lady I buy alpaca products from was selling hats and whatnot, but no socks because she uses a small machine to knit the socks as a time saver versus by hand. That particular craft fair would NOT allow her to sell the socks because they weren't technically "hand made." Just showing the level that some of these fairs take it.
SO yes, you can find at least clothing that is 100% locally sourced, though I understand this may take some research and living in the right location. But with the internet anything is possible these days if you are that motivated. I bet someone is making silnylon in the US, but are we willing to pay double or triple for it?
In the end, you can buy virtually anything that is truly US made from start to finish. You just have to decide what is more easily spendable; money or your conscience.Apr 29, 2014 at 6:26 am #2097503
actually I an I'm need of a pair of jean/pants. I have one pair of jeans (yes only one pair) and i've worn a hole in the crotch and need to be replaced (could be patched i guess but my wife said she can make a mean skirt with them) I'll look into recycling them somewhere, in the mean time i'm off searching for a pair of jeans/pants.Apr 29, 2014 at 7:45 am #2097538
Richard FischelBPL Member
my various shells and synthetic puffies are from wild things and my down jacket is from feathered friends. much of my mid/baselayers are from nwalpine and mars/patagonia (berry compliant). my sleeping bags are western mountaineering and nunatak. my packs are from cilo gear. i paid nothing near retail for any of my kit by waiting for deep-discount sales or buying off of ebay and other sales forums. the one thing i've been unsucsesful sourcing domestically is outdoor footwear (my four pairs of work shoes are allen edmonds). yes, it takes some work to shop this way, but i've made it a fun challenge.Apr 29, 2014 at 8:05 am #2097545
Stephen ParksBPL Member
"This could easily thread drift into a moral minimalism dilemma and super mega anti-consumerism rant, but I haven't had enough coffee imported from Columbia and purchased at Costco to get into that right now…"
I wouldn't have too much moral high ground to stand on currently if we did did get into that, but I thought I'd share the growing nagging of my conscience that has me questioning my purchases and lifestyle these days.Apr 29, 2014 at 8:12 am #2097548
I agree stephen. I've been guilty in the past with just buying things b/c i've liked them. I try not to do that (and keep the wife happy) now. But! I am trying at the least just think about where things come from, the company I try and buy from.
Also, an NPR tid bit had some information. I think it was the "one year anniversary" of the collapse at the mill a week or so ago. And how they were coaxed to go to work that day when the workers didn't want to b/c of the cracks in the floor.
heres the segment.Apr 29, 2014 at 8:34 am #2097553
@owenmLocale: SE US
Working night shift, and often being a bit sleep-deprived, I have found myself in the position of being an unconscious gear buyer several times. Packages mysteriously show up on my porch with stuff in them that I was thinking about, but have no memory of ordering. I'm usually conscious when I buy from an actual store, though…Apr 29, 2014 at 9:28 am #2097574
@dandruLocale: Down Under
I'm very conscious about what I buy now, it's not about where it comes from but more it's function and purpose. With the current mindset, I don't buy random things any-more, my needs are very defined and I do a lot of research before I buy things so I'm generally not into the latest and the best. Unfortunately in Australia, some items are near double the price of what you would pay in the States, so we buy offshore, the downside can be that these items have lots of distribution miles on them.Apr 30, 2014 at 6:18 am #2097822
Jon LeibowitzBPL Member
As someone else stated, just because it is assembled in the USA doesn't mean the fabrics and insulation is coming from the USA. In fact, when it comes to down insulation, most companies source their down from china, which "live pluck" the down. Yes. The same bird, tortured over and over and over again so we can have down insulation. From my understanding Patagonia is one of the few companies that source their down from the meat industry which means the birds were dead before the feathers was plucked from them.
There is a second layer to this issue which is a lot of cheaper down comes from the foie gras industry which many consider torture and inhumane treatment. Patagonia even admits that their grey down comes from force fed birds, though at least not live plucked.
I find that fact alone worth the premium price for a patagonia down garment.
I pretty much concluded, wrong or right, that if a company is not publicizing the fact that their down IS NOT live plucked than it probably is.Apr 30, 2014 at 7:32 am #2097849
Dale WambaughBPL Member
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
The Bangladeshis need the jobs! I put the responsibility on the companies contracting the work to make sure the workers are well treated. Getting the facts on each company's policies and procedures is a challenge.
I've always found it ironic that a tree hugging Leave No Trace crowd like ultralight hikers use high tech, polluting and resource burning materials.
I hate to think what the conditions are like in a African titanium mine. What vapors and chemicals are fabric workers exposed too? What is the waste stream like? We know little about these issues.
I try to buy as much used gear as possible. I estimate that 75% of my kit is second hand.Apr 30, 2014 at 7:49 am #2097857
Greg PehrsonBPL Member
@gregpehrsonLocale: playa del caballo blanco
In my opinion. the lowest-impact methods are:
-Borrow/Share gear with friends
-Use what you have/ modify what you have so it works for you
I just went on a bushwhacking trip in the White Mountains (emphasis on the whacking) in the rain and snow using my wife's cordura Jansport convertible soft suitcase/ backpack from college, because it's what was durable enough for the conditions. I'm sure my cool factor was low, but actually, fancy gear wouldn't change that :)
Just because something is made in the USA doesn't mean it wasn't made in a sweatshop, with the increasing trend to use temporary employment agencies to subcontract out labor to the lowest bidder and insulate the corporation from responsibility to follow wage law and basic health and safety. For all the standards that exist here (which are less than many other countries, by the way), unscrupulous employers have already found the loopholes. This isn't to say we should throw up our hands; if you are going to buy new I think it does make sense to purchase from companies that are trying to do things better. If workers' rights are a priority for you in your purchasing decisions, and I realize they are not for everybody, communicate that to the companies, be they cottages or large corporations. Ask questions if you have them. Otherwise, a company has no way of knowing whether you bought their shirt because you like their commitment to justice or because someone said you looked cute in it.May 13, 2014 at 8:59 pm #2102154
Nick GatelBPL Member
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
I buy the best gear possible that fits my budget. Whoever made it will gain some benefit.
And for the most part I am conscious when I buy gear. I don't think I can buy gear when unconscious ;)May 14, 2014 at 7:38 am #2102267
Jennifer MitolBPL Member
@jenmitolLocale: In my dreams....
Ha Nick – I was just going to say that I seem to be buying gear while unconscious more often these days.May 14, 2014 at 8:01 am #2102275
@hknewmanLocale: Western US
I like the customization that comes from US cottage makers personally, but my stuff has to be able to take hits from branches and thorns when those plants encroach on the trail (darn plants). I intend for my packs, quilts, etc.. to withstand decades of use (and a little abuse) with just a bit of repair.
That said, some of my stuff like sleeping pads and clothing comes from "big box" makers.May 14, 2014 at 8:09 am #2102282
Marko BotsarisBPL Member
@millonasLocale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
"I seem to be buying gear while unconscious more often these days."
Somnamazonism? Comatopatagoniaism? Subliminal Zpackitis?
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