Tent Tech

Historically either a tarp or mid and a headnet, along with trying to avoid camping in buggy areas. Usually this works ok, but there have been some prominent occasions when it really has not. A nest for the Seek Outside LBO is on the list.

"I do not like tents."

"Uh, ok. Thanks for sharing…"…….actually made me smile :-)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a mid and/or tarp with inner net essentially a doubled walled shelter. I used a cuben MLD Grace Solo paired with a MLD SL Bivy with full head net option for years…..and to be quite honest, since going back to a regular tarptent like shelter, I get as good of views (especially with the beak/vestibule rolled up) and feel as close to nature as I did with my tarp setup.

Getting back on track……the TT Double Moment looks very enticing as I'll be purchasing in the near future a tent for trips with my daughter.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a mid and/or tarp with inner net essentially a doubled walled shelter."

It is, and much credit is due to Mr. Shires for complicating the idea of what a tent is.

I see it as a conceptual distinction more than anything. Eric asked what the ideal tent is. For a lot of consumers and designers, it's the closest thing to the comfort of home that is under a certain weight metric. For me, it's the minimal amount of protection which will allow me to get a decent 8 hours of sleep. The flexibility required by that is why Tarptents are of no interest to me.

I'm curious what you have against Henry from Tarptents? Seems personal…

I really like the design, shapes, and ease of set-up of tarp tents and several other cottage ul tents/tarps look usable. However, in many areas where I camp I want the shelter to shield me from wind or dust which the shallow bathtub floors of these shelters do not do. I wish that they would offer the option to replace the side mesh with something like the breathable white material that is above the brightly colored bathtub material on tents like the Big Agnes tents. Why is this not done? Would this add "a lot" of weight? I wish that one cottage maker would at least offer this as an option on their standard shelters.

Nothing whatsoever. I'm complimented him twice in as many posts, his products just don't have any personal appeal.

The Notch, Moment, and Scarp models from Tarptent are available with a breathable fabric inner vice mesh……probably a couple more too that I didn't mention.

David,
Wouldn't a Notch, Moment, or Stratospire pitched without inner tent (fly only), be just as flexible as a seek outside lbo mid? Seems like the same concept in my opinion.

Tarptent also makes modified mid designs (outer fly for SS1 and 2, not to mention one can use this same approach with the Notch and a weight around a pound).

"It is, and much credit is due to Mr. Shires for complicating the idea of what a tent is"

I am genuinely curious what you mean by this.

I assume you mean Mr. Shires has "blurred" the lines between what is a tent vs. what is a tarp, and not that he created complicated structures.

If the former, that is a good thing, in my opinion.

In regards to your personal definition of an ideal tent, it seems clear to me that, according to your definition, there are many sittuations where not having a tent is the ideal, since its simply about getting sleep, and not about the shelter.

While a great thought (and one that can be applied to everything one takes on a trip), I don't understand how it applies here.

When I design something, I have a choice: design to the minimum, the norm, or to the norm's "exception."

If our homes were designed & built to "the minimum requirements necessary to grant us protection, eating, and sleeping,"
We'd have many homeless people, since we would never be able to plan for all the unknowns out there.

Same goes with a tent, I suppose…

"I assume you mean Mr. Shires has "blurred" the lines between what is a tent vs. what is a tarp…"

Exactly, and a lot of the recent developments in both cottage and mainstream companies have him to thank.

"I'm complimented him twice in as many posts, his products just don't have any personal appeal."

Let me suggest that is not the way it has come across, at least to me, even in the above sentence. Coming into a Tent Tech thread about what would make a better tent and stating that you don't like tents seems snarky. At best it just doesn't add anything to the thread. It's like me going into a what makes a better frame-less pack and stating that I don't like frame-less packs and xxx's products (they only make frame-less packs) don't appeal to me.

I asked for a "Double Moment" and I got it! Don't pi…. rain on my parade man! ;)

(Everyone please be sure to note the simile on the last sentence and take it how it was intended. ;) )

"At best it just doesn't add anything to the thread."

We'll have to be content with respectful disagreement on that one. If you can't have a discussion about something without questioning premises than the discussion is of limited value.

OH BOY! GEEZ O MAN! A Double Moment, almost as I described. And here I thought I was just tent-dreaming.

This thread now has me all-a-twitter (to quote Dirty Harry).

Henry, Thank You for designing this tent. Thou art truly a bountiful designer.
It looks perfect for a backpacking couple.
I'll recommend it to several of my Ski Patrol friends and REI clerks I know that backpack with spouses.

And the option of supporting the ends with trekking poles is great.
I assume you will offer a X-ing pole as well.

"We'll have to be content with respectful disagreement on that one. If you can't have a discussion about something without questioning premises than the discussion is of limited value."

Well, we can't. At least not anymore. Ryan made sure of that with the Best Ultralight Tent thread.

Yes I too see a blur between say a Notch/Strato Spire with (or without…) the inner (fabric or mesh) and the shaped tarp or pyramid that so many use an inner (extra weight and cost) with…

Michael K
Yes there are several Tarptents that have a fabric inner as an option.
This is the SS2 with it. The SS1 looks exactly the same as that. You can set up either fly or inner by themselves too
The fabric inner for the Notch has a mesh top third but the sides are exactly how you describe what you are after.

This is the fly set up as a shaped tarp. The two halves of the door panels can also be open leaving you with a "roof" but full side views.

"Well, we can't. At least not anymore. Ryan made sure of that with the Best Ultralight Tent thread."

Shhhhhh. Don't raise the ire of The Great One, or you will find this thread "moderated" out of existence also.

Okay, Henry, the weekend is over.

Weight?
Headroom?
Other details?
More pictures?

:)

Not that I'm eager or anything…

"WHAT ASPECTS OF TENT DESIGN (esp. your current tent) DO YOU WANT TO SEE IMPROVED?"

I'd like to see something wonderful happen with waterproof bivvies usable as complete shelters. They have their niche, but usually lose out to other shelters.

Some time back somebody wrote of a particular knife "just holding it makes me want to gut a trout". Well, just looking at an eVent bivvy makes me want to do the Pyrrenean High Route with a wood burning stove and a knife.

Some designer needs to have a stroke of inspiration.

"Some designer needs to have a stroke of inspiration."

Some designer just needs to post the specs on a Double Moment! Not that I'm trying to rush said designer. :-)

Since people have been known to hike non-solo, with 4+ poles between them, I wonder what could be done with 2+ person shelters designed for 4 trecking poles?

Sorry about the delay. Came home sick from the PCT Kickoff and was pretty much out of commission for a few days.

I just posted a Double Moment page with more photos and specs here –>

http://www.tarptent.com/doublemoment_whatsnew.html

-H

Thanks, Henry! Fits up to 7-footers, woo-hoo! Wish I needed a 2-person tent right now…

Hope you're feeling better.

Hi, Henry –

Thanks for the pictures and info – and I too hope you are feeling better now. Any chance of finding out the weight of the fly plus arch pole, without the inner, when you have a chance?

Love it. Nice design.

Any chance you may be working on a 2 person Cloudburst? Something a little smaller?