- Apr 21, 2014 at 9:05 pm #2095161
"Exactly, which is why I'm a bit disappointed, since I can make these comparisons with just naked eye observations."
Glenn, I wish that you could understand what I've been saying. If your eyes are telling you that two lights have the same intensity, that may not be true. Equally, if your eyes are telling you that two lights have different intensity, that may not be true either. I explained this before. Are your eyes able to distinguish color temperature? Are your eyes able to distinguish beam pattern spread? How about spectrum bandwidth?
Since human eyes coupled to human brains are not great about detecting this stuff, you need to leave it to instruments.
–B.G.–Apr 21, 2014 at 9:18 pm #2095165
So if I say I can click between H1 and H2, and see large intensity changes, then 45 minutes later do the same thing and NOT see any intensity changes… You're telling me it's just my eyes? Then what would be the point in having different setting levels in the first place?
Likewise when comparing 2 beams. If one looks brighter and washes out the other beam, then 40 minutes later the reverse is true, then you don't need an instrument to tell you the one got drastically dimmer.Apr 21, 2014 at 9:21 pm #2095167
Glenn, I can tell from your questions that you don't understand what I've been stating, so I will stop.
–B.G.–Apr 21, 2014 at 9:55 pm #2095182
Ok, so back to my point. I'll try to simplify.
It's my understanding that:
Regulated output should give ~80% rated burn time at aprox rated intensity.
The problem is that:
By the ~80% mark, it's already slowly dimmed to the next lower level.
Seems this way on both the H1 and M1 runs, dropping to H2/M2 outputs.
Reaching stated runtimes leaves little more than a glow.
My question is:
Based on others practices, is this the "real world" run time with 2kmah eneloops?
I keep reading how rated runtimes are pretty accurate for ZL, but I'm not getting those results. Am I being overly optomistic?Apr 23, 2014 at 10:12 am #2095594Ryan SmithBPL Member
@violentgreenLocale: East TN
I've had good luck with ZL's run time estimates, but I use Energizer Ultimates instead of Eneloops. For me, it's very noticeable when the light hits the downhill and starts dying. Maybe try the Ultimates just for further testing. If the light continues to not meet your expectations I would email ZL for guidance.
RyanApr 23, 2014 at 10:43 am #2095607
When any sort of battery is loaded, you can plot out a discharge curve over time. This is generally graphed with voltage on the left and time on the bottom, although one curve only applies to a single load current. Back in the old days when we had the old carbon zinc batteries, the curve was by no means flat and the curve was pretty sloppy (what we call a "soft knee"). The battery died off slowly at the end. When we got to alkaline batteries, the curve was much tighter. Still, the curve toward the end was not tight. We got to rechargeables, and the curve is similar in shape. Lithium primary batteries are completely different, however. The curve is much flatter through the normal run time. Then when it gets to the end, it dies in a hurry. The curve has what we call a "sharp knee" and goes to hell. There are math expressions that describe the shape of each knee.
–B.G.–Apr 23, 2014 at 3:29 pm #2095705
Interesting to see that the stated run times on Zebralights own spec sheet are by using Sanyo 2000 mAh Eneloops, yet the only reports so far of actually achieving those rated run times, come from using Lithium batteries.
I've tried looking over on CPF again, but maybe I don't know where to look. Seems all the posts are about beam throw and model comparison. Any mention of run times are just generalizations and vague gushings, so any appropriate links would be appreciated.
The run curves of NiMH eneloops are closer to a lithium, than an alkaline, especially in high energy draw devices like flashlights. Zebralight specifically recommends only rechargeable eneloops or lithiums be used in the light, and not alkalines, because of this. The eneloop brand in particular because of their years of shelf life I'd assume. I haven't seen anything saying eneloops run curves are any different than other name brand NiMH's.May 3, 2014 at 10:22 am #2098867TKB 1979Member
@arizona1979Locale: DESERT SOUTHWEST
"But for hiking, I want a light at my waist, not on my head so dips and bumps in the trail show up better. The clip on the Zebralight is very solid and great for clipping onto a waistband, hip belt or shoulder strap."
What a great idea – I'm such a moron for not thinking about using my headlamp at waist level. I'm going to try this!May 3, 2014 at 10:34 pm #2098971Jeffs ElevenBPL Member
Clunky (@ BPL standards) but the BD Storm. Done. Never even fret my light- it does everything well (red, flood, spot), locks, interface makes sense, and 4AAAs last a long time
4oz is heavy, I know. I like light when I want it, and I don't want to worry about fresh batteries all every time i go out.
Its worth the weight penalty to me.May 4, 2014 at 11:54 am #2099085Bunta FujiwaraMember
I am thinking of getting the Black Diamond Spot(2014).
It has scored good at Outdoorgearlab too.
130 lumens is more than i will ever need,but the battery seems lasting,it has good value/weight and everything.
Havent found a discount on it yet.
There is also Petzl tikkina 2,much less bright,but lasts long.Jun 18, 2014 at 3:48 pm #2112525Diane “Piper” SoiniBPL Member
@sbhikesLocale: Santa Barbara
No matter how good or bad the light I have I always just end up feeling around in the dark. I don't do any night hiking.Jun 18, 2014 at 10:36 pm #2112633Delmar O’DonnellMember
@bolsterLocale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Like many others here, I carry a Zebralight. An older model, I think the H501w. Has yet to let me down.Jun 18, 2014 at 10:54 pm #2112636
Yes, the older Zebralight H501w. I think it is smaller than the new models.
I was using it last week as I walked up Mount Whitney. I had started walking at 1 a.m., so I needed a light that would operate reliably for hours without any battery change. I kept it on the low light level, which was perfect for the trail. I switched it off around 5 a.m.
About 95% of the time, I hold it in my hand down low at thigh level. Only 5% of the time do I actually place it on my head.
–B.G.–Jun 20, 2014 at 11:31 am #2113101Mike WBPL Member
@skopeoLocale: British Columbia
>> Regulated output should give ~80% rated burn time at approx rated intensity <<
I think you may be mistaken on what "regulated" means and it's understandable because all manufacturers do it differently (great surprise… marketing spin!).
A few examples:
My Black Diamond headlamp does the 80% regulated thing that you are talking about. It will hold its constant brightness until the charge is diminished by 20% and then it starts to fade slowly. What they don't tell you (convenient marketing), is how long the steady brightness will last. They will tell you something like it runs for 120 hours and has 140 lumens at max power (when in truth the 140 lumens lasts for less than an hour!).
My Fenix HL21 headlamp is regulated and Fenix does it by the book (which is actually why I don't like it). This headlamp will maintain a constant brightness until it dies. Works one minute and is full brightness, turn it off and it won't turn on again if the battery is depleted (if you are lucky it will dim for a very short time just before it dies but not much warning… which is why I don't like this light… but it is a great light).
My Zebralight H52W does the regulated thing a bit differently and you are actually complaining about your Zebralight for performing "exactly" how it was designed. The Zebralights will maintain a regulated output for the stated time and then drop down to the next level. This will happen repeatedly (moving to the next lower level) until the battery is depleted. I like this as it gives you some warning (unlike the Fenix which dies very quickly). So on H1, you will get regulated (constant) brightness until the voltage drops to a certain level and then the Zebralight will step down to M1. (which is why you are seeing no difference between H1 and M1… it has stepped down to M1 and will not go higher once depleted)
As for the run times, I'm a bit of a flashlight geek, and have tested the claimed run times of the H52W. I have a Lux Meter to test the brightness (as Bob says, your eyes can't detect changes in light intensity very well)… the lux meter provides a baseline. I also ran my tests in front of a video camera so that I could watch the H52W "step down" as the battery died and the time is embedded in the video, so run time calculations are easy. Light intensity is very noticeable on a video camera (better than your eye) and there was very little fade with the H52W, it just steps down to the next lower level when the battery starts to die. The times I recorded were very similar to the claims made by Zebralight.
I'm not saying your Zebralight isn't acting as you have described but if it is, it's faulty.Jun 28, 2014 at 5:19 am #2115399mik matraBPL Member
@mikmikLocale: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
I got this Velcro strapped to my hat. It's 15.5g or just under half an ounce. It has a solar charger built into it (HIGHLY doubt that actually works). I am a McGyver kind of guy so I jimmied the thing apart and I can replace the battery if it goes dead on me but I have been using it on several trips now and it hasn't lost any strength :)
EDIT; I must add I am only using this light as an in-camp light and have never had to rely (nor do I plan to) on it in an emergency decent off a mountain though it would do okay!Jun 30, 2014 at 4:38 am #2116013Ito JakuchuBPL Member
For people looking to buy Zebralights, I just ordered a H52Fw from http://www.e2fieldgear.com. Hope that's enough for some night hiking. I think they're also available directly from Zebralight right now.Jun 30, 2014 at 6:10 am #2116024Owen McMurreySpectator
@owenmLocale: SE US
"Hope that's enough for some night hiking."
It's about as good as it gets. M2(the lower medium mode), occasionally M1 is all I've ever needed to use for night hiking.
I never use the high modes, but wouldn't want something less than the medium for walking around.
Never know what might be right in the trail, even in a campsite. Lighting provided by Zebralight H52Fw ;)
Jun 30, 2014 at 3:42 pm #2116213Ito JakuchuBPL Member
"It's about as good as it gets. M2(the lower medium mode), occasionally M1 is all I've ever needed to use for night hiking.
I never use the high modes, but wouldn't want something less than the medium for walking around.
Never know what might be right in the trail, even in a campsite. Lighting provided by Zebralight H52Fw ;)"
Oh nice one! It is actually mostly the snakes I want to be able to see beforehand.
I was going back and forth between the H52Fw and H52w, but in the experience I do have with night hiking the brighter spot is what I thought could be improved upon the most, and the lumen difference between the two is not that insane either. I guess either one would have been fine, thanks for the example.Jul 12, 2014 at 5:24 pm #2119261Chris RhoadesBPL Member
I just recently hiked the Trans Catalina Trail with part of the hike being two hours in the dark. I also hiked and set my tent up in the dark near Muir Woods near SF. I had the Remix Pro and was perfectly happy with it. Lightweight, bright and includes Red LED for in tent and around camp low light brightness and saving night vision. http://www.princetontec.com/remix-pro
Fenix just came out with a new light. I just ordered the Fenix HL50 which is many times brighter, has options for CR123a as well as AA and weighs close to the same. http://www.fenixlight.com/ProductMore.aspx?id=130&tid=27&cid=2#.U8HP4VY4Kxw
I will hopefully get it this week and take it out for a whirl.
Remix Pro is 66g including battery whereas the Fenix is 57g without battery (17g battery weight = 74g)
For back up purposes, I also have a small red photon light clipped inside my tent on a loop tear my head (Big Agnes Fly Creek 1). It is easy to reach up and click it on if I need it.Sep 14, 2014 at 3:46 pm #2135217Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
My Princeton Tech Scout with 4 lithium coin batteries does very well and is even waterproof.
I had one half of the shell break after many years of use. I called Princceton Tech and they said, "Yes, the Scout is a discontinued model but send it in and we'll fix it." I sent it in and got it back with a new half of the shell. Works great again!
Love PT headlamps!Sep 26, 2014 at 11:47 am #2137750Joe MedlinBPL Member
Finally time for a new light and this tread is actually quite helpful. If anyone reads this (as others have noticed this subforum doesn't seem to be to active) would love to hear opinions between the 2 or even if a new player has emerged?
No pocket clip on the Fenix kind of hurts that one.Oct 2, 2014 at 4:27 pm #2139201Richard BanksBPL Member
I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if my methods don't apply to your needs.
I used a 9volt "pak-lite" and a Fenix LD01. It's on my pct thru hike. much better to hold a flashlight at the waist than your head. You need much less lumens to light up the immediate area and your depth perception is much better. Setting up my tarp and other camp chores that require two hands are by putting the light…in mouth. It's never really bothered me and both options are less than 1.5 ounces.Oct 2, 2014 at 4:32 pm #2139204
"a 9volt pak-lite"
I have one of those, and it works fine, especially if you use it with a lithium primary battery. I made a head strap for it so that it will ride over my right ear, and that works best in camp.
–B.G.–Apr 9, 2017 at 11:39 am #3462374Edgar HSpectator
Zebralight H600w is an amazing, do-it-all light. The H600Fw (same light but with frosted lens) is an even better headlamp but with a little less distance of throw.
If you order an H style pocket clip from Zebralight, it will fit the H600 models just fine, but for some reason they don’t ship with them. A slotted ring of heat shrink tubing will permanently lock the clip onto the light.
An H600 weighs less than its 18650 battery, while the head strap weighs more.
If you don’t care about having a powerful light for an emergency that will also give you months of very low power utility illumination, the Thrunite Ti3 (warm/ neutral is my preference) is powered by a single AAA and gives upwards of 5 days of low light that’s fine for seeing inside your pack, seeing where you’re peeing, etc. Alternately it can provide about 5 hours of Good utility lighting, enough for lighting a cooking area, walking a trail, etc. – Alternately the same battery can be expended in about 30 min on full power, this is good for momentary use to look further away, check out a sound or look further down the trail, etc. For more power and less weight, pay for disposable AAA lithium batteries instead of Eneloops, use Eneloops for day to day.Apr 9, 2017 at 12:09 pm #3462378Edgar HSpectator
“I put in a freshly charged 2mah eneloop and ran it on H1. After just under 35 minutes, the dimming was noticeable. After just over 45 minutes, it had faded more and was indistinguishable from the H2 setting. It didn’t switch over to H2, it just slowly faded away very un-regulated like.”
– that kind of performance from a 2mAh Eneloop is incredibly good!
But seriously, Zebralight crushes the battery efficiency metrics, their drivers are outstanding, especially for long term, low power usage. I struggled in my mind for a while switching from AA to 18650, but the power density of 18650 makes it all worth while, with daily pocket carry of any H600w, using it in sunlight on high, and in the dark with adjusted eyes on med 1,2 and low 1, I’ll recharge the battery every month or so just to top it off. Sometimes I’ve run it down as low as 50%.
AA batteries are great for their nearly ubiquitous availability and capacity, but I’ve settled on the AAA battery for conveniences, compactness and light weight, while 18650 serves for high power and long duration illumination.
An H600w with pocket clip and a 3,400 mAh Panasonic battery weighs 3 & 1/4oz.
My Thrunite Ti3 with heat shrink on the tail to bite on, and a necklace string to always have it handy, weighs .535 oz.
An Energizer lithium AAA weighs .267 oz. , an Eneloop AAA weighs .41oz.
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