Llama Wool Sleeping Bag

I think it's cool that they are looking for more eco alternatives to current choices, but speaking as someone who eats mostly vegetarian and often times vegan, and with environmental concern and awareness, i don't have a huge problem with using down.

Reason being is that it's often the by product of the food industry, and honestly it's better to use the entire animal. It's extremely unrealistic to expect the majority of people to suddenly switch to vegetarian and vegan diets. Meanwhile, if they are going to eat duck and goose, then best practice is to use as much of the animal as you can.

I do have a major issue with live plucking–it's hard to say how often this happens or doesn't. Some say because of market and consumer pressure there is a trend of moving away from that practice.

Re: the site. I'm not sure if i would label it "snake oil", but there is some definite inaccuracy there.

For example, "Llamas have one of the largest diameter hollow hairs in the world. This allows the fiber to retain warm air in their fleece, without relying on loft. They have been sustainably ranched by handlers in the Andean Mountains for over 4000 years. This idea is where the Rama Llama, and Deneb, were born."

A lot of mammals that are innately adapted to more extremely cold weather and conditions, often have a similar combo of properties with their fur. Often they have a coarser, larger diameter outer coat or "guard" hair that is often more medullated (hollow) in nature, and then beneath that, there is super fine, more solid, downy fiber that sticks out more to create loft. For animals, it's the combo of same that really provides the benefits.

There was a study done comparing the insulation properties of larger, round hollow fibers to finer solid fibers in a garment/fabric type configuration. It was found that the thinner solid, round fibers trapped more air than the hollow ones. That same study also found that solid, tri lobal shaped fibers trapped more air than the solid, round ones. Granted, if they were comparing hollow fibers and solid fibers of the same diameter, of course the hollow would trap more air than the solid.

A far better alternative to the Llama coarse hair they are using, would be good quality Angora Rabbit fur, which averages both super fine AND often more truly hollow fibers. This is why when it's put in a higher percentage in a sweater, it tends to get really fuzzy and lofty. The fibers practically float off the main body of the garment.

Meanwhile, as loose fill, it would work great too and be significantly warmer than the low quality Llama fiber they are using. They are basically taking what most in the fiber world consider a low quality product, the coarse, large fibers of the outer coat and touting it as awesomeness.

The outer coat of these animals does provide some insulation, but primarily it's weather protection against the elements and provides an initial barrier for the softer, finer, and more lofty downy hairs on the inside which provide more the warmth. Some rare animals, like Angora Rabbits, and i think Polar Bears, have both a lot of fine and hollow fibers at the same time (meaning much of the individual fibers are both fine and hollow).

But as good as Angora Rabbit fur is, it still doesn't beat higher, or even probably lower quality, down from Goose or Duck. Whatever the warmth to weight ratio of Angora Rabbit fur, Duck and Goose downs will be more compressible and likely longer lasting. Long term durability is a big factor also in overall "sustainability", and down does very well in that area.

It is cool though, that you don't have to kill or even cause pain to Angora rabbits to get their fiber. Perhaps in the future, some eco oriented entrepreneur or innovator will somehow combine Angora Rabbit fur with Goose or Duck down to achieve a better balance in cost and sustainability, while maintaining high warmth to weight ratio (but again probably less compressible and less durable).

alot of these "fancy" materials is that so people can say they are "different" or "better" … some kind of status symbol

as said alot of down is the byproduct of the food industry … not to mention nothing currently is as insulating as down

;)

Polarguard Delta and other synthetics have hollow fibers.

Yeah, they use fossil fuels to make 'em but I'd bet they are more resiliant to repeated stuffing than Llama fur. Not to mention the synthetic fibers dry MUCH faster than animal hair.

How is this any more sustainable than down?

Anyone have actual real world experience with lofted wool insulation? I know wool is really good at keeping warm while wet… while its in a tight knit like a sweater or blanket where it is not relying as much on air space. What is stopping this fluffy wool fill from flattening when it gets wet?

Having watched the Kickstarter video I kind of started laughing because the one kid appears to be wearing an Eddie Bauer down jacket while they are out in the cold promoting their sustainable and non hurtful Llama fiber.

Sort of reminds me of that right wing hypocrite Fred C. Koch who was a co-founder of the John Birch Society who made his vast fortune working for Joseph Stalin (Communist) building oil wells in Russia……..

So I am being a little sarcastic and overly critical and I do like the innovative idea. Hope they succeed. We need as many options as possible in outdoor gear and if it works than it is a good thing.

I'm not altogether sure why they've chosen to use llama fiber for their insulation when alpaca fiber is warmer and softer. To make matters worse, one of the photos on their kickstarter page (the one with the Andean women) does not show llamas but rather their smaller nicer cousins, the alpaca. I understand that the two look a fair bit a like, but if I were starting a business based on the product from a particular animal, I'd make sure that was the animal I displayed on my kickstarter page.

Disclosure: my parents raise both types of animals and the only thing remarkable about the llamas is their ability to protect the alpacas from coyotes. Otherwise their fiber isn't worth near as much nor is it as nice.