Should we support stove manufacturers who don’t supply replacement parts?

[Bill (L.Dog) Garlinghouse]

Yes, this is a bit of a rant. I've been using a Monatauk Gnat for two years now, and I have been spending way too much time trying to find an o-ring for it. It hasn't failed, but its getting a little stiff, and I wanted a replacement in my maint kit.

It looks like Monatauk is out of business? Their web domain name now goes to a Japanese site talking philosophically about love. Most of the vendors are out of stock on Monatauk products, or nearly so … I found a European domain, and am waiting for a response from my email to them. Otherwise, I have yet to find anyone carrying a maintenance kit or O-Ring.

I understand the Gnat is manufactured by Fire Maple in China. Fire Maple's nomenclature for the stove is FMS-116t. They have not responded to an email I sent over a week ago.

The FMS-116T is also sold as the Olicamp Kinetic Ultra Their customer service email was forwarded to their US Distributor, Liberty Mountain, who says they don't have any in stock, that it will be 4 months, and they couldn't provide me with the tech specs – Although they offered to get me one somehow.

I went to several hardware stores looking for something that matches, and the best I could find in terms of i.d and o.d. was not as thick as the original.

I'm sure I could run this down further. Take a mic to the o-ring to get exact measurements, and scour the internet, but I shouldn't have to.

I know we live in a world of disposable technology, and one could argue that as a gram-weenie gearhead, I should take this opportunity to buy the latest and greatest. But I'd like to submit that any future reviews of canister stoves should address whether one can get a damn o-ring, and to be very vocal about not supporting any manufacturer who does not support their products, and ultimately, us.

Thank you. I feel better …

[nashgill]

Another idea: When I wanted to order a Fire Maple product I found a supplier on ebay, emailed them, and they placed a custom order for me shipped direct from China. Took maybe a week and a half, which wasn't too bad. Maybe they could help you. I'm sorry I can't get the name right now as I am at work, but should be easy to figure out who the person is on ebay.

[Jerry Adams]

I have bought some cheap stuff from China, but

That's one reason more established brands are more expensive, they also have to have a support organization, support warranties, more likely to be in business years later,…

I don't know that Fire Maple or Gnat fall into this category, not being critical of anyone, just something I think about.

[USA Duane Hall]

A old time, real auto supply may have a O-rings for you. Also try Harbor Freight, but then you will have to buy a box of different sizes, hoping for the one you need. Look for at least Viton ones if you can.
Duane

[David Drake]

I'd bet Roger Caffin has the tech specs you need for the o-ring. A supplier like McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com) is prob. a better bet than a local hardware store.

Looks like the FMS-116T (Fire Maple branding) is available thru an Amazon seller. I was able to buy my FMS-300T from Amazon, with Prime shipping–no need for Ebay.

Seems unlikely Fire Maple itself is going out of business anytime soon.

[Jerry Adams]

"I was able to buy my FMS-300T from Amazon, with Prime shipping–no need for Ebay."

I noticed that Amazon now sells those cheap weight scales from China. No need to go to ebay. Amazon has a good return policy if it doesn't work.

[Roger Caffin]

> I'd bet Roger Caffin has the tech specs you need for the o-ring.
Guilty as charged. See my FAQ at
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm#Oring

BS011 should be available at many hardware stores and auto parts stores. I'd prefer Viton myself, rather than cheaper neoprene.

Cheers

[Bill (L.Dog) Garlinghouse]

>> I'd bet Roger Caffin has the tech specs you need for the o-ring.
> Guilty as charged.

Thank you all. I had wondered if the o-ring was standard. I know that some stoves have a detent in which the the o-ring sits, and it made me question that. I had used McMaster-Carr when I built my pulk several years ago, but it was useful to prod me. I have a 5-pack of Viton BS011 O-rings coming my way. Ought to extend the life of that stove another 5000 miles!

> See my FAQ at http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm#Oring

Bookmarked!

[Zorg Zumo]

I'm really not into important gear that has breakable parts. I think that is why I like trangia burners and the SVEA 123R. Every store that sells MSR stoves has a wall with MSR rebuild kits and parts – that just seems wrong to me.

[James Couch]

Really? When my Svea died and I could not get replacment parts I purchased an MSR XG-K. Used the XG-K hard and frequently for 25 years, rebuilding it a time or two then sold the working unit to a friend later. I like the Svea, it was a fine stove, but the MSR was far superior in performance and repairable – something I for one appreciate.

[James Marco]

"I'm really not into important gear that has breakable parts."

Yes, absolutely. I recently (last fall) replaced the valve in my SVEA123r. While I was at it I changed the jet. Seems there was a piece of sand in it for the past 20 years. The cleaning needle just made a new hole next to it. The graphite washer on the stem was replaced with some finely ground pencil lead and packed in…it works, no leaks.

Regardless of the luck you might have had with other stoves, I rate them from an engineering perspective: The fewest rubber parts and the fewest moving parts means a highly reliable stove.

Fuel, rated from easy to hard to get is dependent on where you are. In the ADK's, WG is fairly easy year round. Canisters are often difficult to get except in spring. Alcohol can be very difficult with most stations only stocking Red (isopropyl.) Sports stores do not stock it at all, maybe WG if they stock anything. For trips up to a month, I resupply food and carry fuel. I need a highly reliable stove.

This is likely a clean difference between weekenders (enough for three days) or through hikers (often resupplying every 5-7 days) and trippers (often resupplying every 2-3 weeks.) The tripper will want reliable gear that will work in all circumstances, from snow, to bright sun, heavy rains to dry & parched conditions. He does not have the luxury of swapping out gear from a bounce box to meet changing conditions. Nor of going home to resupply every 2-3 days. He needs good, highly reliable gear that minimizes it's weight. I focus on reliable gear, small volume, and low weight. It need not be the the lightest, just low weight.

UL means traveling light. In todays market of being able to buy everything you need for a UL trip (perhaps you can with SUL, too) I look for reliability, first. Whatever I buy *must* work for it's designed purpose every time I need it. Then I look at volume and weight, often about equally.

[Zorg Zumo]

I don't mean to imply that MSR's stoves are inferior – they have a excellent track record. But face it, they have a lower MTBF than the SVEA simply because they have more parts. A wall of repair parts is a good thing because it means MSR is committed to supporting their products (certainly better than some of these CCC* Ebay stoves). But a lack of repair parts for the SVEA makes sense – since nobody's ever gonna need them.

*Cheap China Crap

[Bob Gross]

I've been using MSR stoves for almost 35 years now. In each case when my stove was unusable in the field, it was because of some human reason. For example, when one guy stepped on a stove and bent the hell out of it. Back in the old days, I would never filter my Coleman fuel, and the plastic millings from the Coleman cap would be in the fuel, and that melted underneath the burner. One guy borrowed one of my XGKs and didn't know how to assemble the burner to the fuel pump, so he ended up bending it to force it to fit. One time I had neglected to put any oil on the pump leather, and it had dried out, so I could pump all I wanted, but it wasn't pressurizing. Then I remembered the Chapstick in my pocket. That made a suitable lubricant, and then it worked.

When I had a serious problem with an MSR stove, I would take it to the repair shop at REI. That was back when REI had real repair shops. REI couldn't fix it, so they gave it back, hoping that I would buy something new. I would take the problem home, figure it out and fix it, and keep that stove on the road for the next ten years.

–B.G.–

[Hikin’ Jim]

Yes, absolutely. I recently (last fall) replaced the valve in my SVEA123r. While I was at it I changed the jet. Seems there was a piece of sand in it for the past 20 years. The cleaning needle just made a new hole next to it

James, where are you getting your spare parts for your Svea? I know a place in California (A&H), but I was curious if you had another source.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[jimmy b]

I would argue this is not always the case. Not speaking to the stoves mentioned but in general. A superior engineered product will often outlast or perform a lesser one with fewer parts. Having spent many years wrenching motorcycles I'm also big fan of preventive maintenance. Scheduled replacement of wear parts greatly increases reliability. Popping in a new O ring now and then is easy enough. Just sayin':)

jimmyb

[Adam Klags]

Bill, did these O-rings end up doing the trick for you? I’ve got a the same issue developing now, after about 4 seasons with mine. Time to replace. Did this size/company work well? I’d like to order them myself and figured I’d check in to make sure it ended up being the right O-ring?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

My stove solutions:

SUMMER-> MSR canister or Trail Designs Sidewinder W/ modded ESBIT burner

WINTER-> MSR white gas (petrol) or Trail Designs Sidewinder W/ Inferno wood burning insert

BTW, the MSR stove is the Whisperlite Universal canister/white gas convertible stove.

Both stoves are very reliable and simple to use and have excellent customer service.

[Author]

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