New Polartec Alpha discussion

I'd have to say so far I'm agreeing with Rick M – I can't see a use for the Alpha if you already have a lightweight breathable fleece + breathable wind layer (I use the R1 Hoody and older breathable Houdini which is going strong). About the same weight and seems more versatile to me than an Alpha Jacket. Maybe the Alpha breathes a little better, but all you have to do is open the zip on your windlayer. Because I like to use a 2 layer puffy insulation system for versatility, I was thinking about Alpha for the inner jacket, but not seeing the advantage – plus the cost is quite high early on in the adoption curve.

I could see the advantage if you need a more durable breathable insulation jacket for stop and go while carrying a lot of weight, without the opportunity to take it off and put back on, like in the military.

Love to hear Richard Nisley chime in.

Also found out the earlier Patagonia rep was wrong – the Nano Air jackets are not replacements for their light winter softshell jackets – they will have a light soft shell replacing the Knifeblade jacket, due out sometime in the Dec-Jan time frame.

While I appreciate Patagonia clothes when they get them right, and the company's ethic, I find Patagonia reps to not be very knowledgeable and be wildly inconsistent in their advice, both in stores and on the phone. Some of them seem to make stuff up instead of admitting they don't know. I seem to know their garments better than 80-90% of the reps I've ever spoken with (which is probably true for most BPLers with most mainstream manufacturers).

All: Operating at 60N 136W in Canada's Yukon Territory, where winters are 9 months long, and where multiple clothing layer systems are the norm, I am very curious to see if Polartech Alpha does result in a synthetic insulation layer that passes on more body vapour than existing insulations.

Typically, (as a human popsicle!) I wear up to 4 layers of 80gr/m Primaloft together, Russian nesting doll style for -40C/-40F when moderately active.

Traditionally, at some point in this system, all with uncoated nylon breathable non-membrane shell materials, your body vapour condenses back into water, as the outer shell will, of course, be the outside temperature of -40C.

I am one of the users that would find it useful if the body vapour, with more breathable fabrics, would make it further out into the clothing system, before, inevitably, it condenses and freezes.

I can see how under some high exertion, wearing fewer layers in milder conditions, say -10C(+14F) the body vapour might even pass into the air before freezing. Well, some of it anyways!

Mountain Equipment Canada (MEC.ca) has one jacket with Polartech Alpha, so new there is not currently a detailed product description for it. It will be interesting to hear their rationale for this product, as they have got out of making conventional Primaloft liner + layering jackets.

Stay dry! Stay warm!

-40/-40, I'm glad I'm not you!

My Physics intuition says that increased breathability of Alpha isn't really going to help you get the moisture much further out, at least over a long period of time such as many hours or more. The breathability of the fabric doesn't change at what depth the freeze point is. Once a little bit of moisture is trapped in there, the breathability will go down substantially, making sure that that freeze point depth is definite.

Windy situations would be different…though with windchill maybe it would be worse, like closer to skin?

I can definitely see this stuff being useful as a belay jacket.

Military; they have needs for a belay jacket on steroids. If you are moving in cold conditions and you have this jacket on, and then temps change or you are in contact with the enemy, you don't have time to take of your pack and or webbing/vest, take off the jacket to get yourself to optimum temp, put it away, pack back on, etc. Your heart rate goes through the roof and you fight until the fight is over (or you could be lyeing prone in increasing temperatures but can't move to expose yourself for a while); adjusting clothing except for maybe throwing off gloves or a beanie in half second lulls is impossible. In these situations at least you are less likely to end up soaked in your own sweat, which will cause you temperature control problems later on.

Not sure if it was mentioned already, but Prolite Gear have a video which
Shows the differnce between down, Primaloft and alpha garments using
a device to measure breathability.

I have a Rab Strata on route to try out, as campsaver had them going cheap on sale and a 20% off coupon.