Extending a 30 Degree Bag to the mid to low 20s

Are you hiking to the top of Mt. Lemmnon or something? Should be beautiful this time of year at the lower elevations.

I think go with what you have at home, just more of it – hands, feet and head first. A bag liner can be bought for pretty cheap and that will get you about 5 degrees. If you already have a bivy sack that is another way. But just be prepared to wear all your clothes at once in a pinch and you will be fine. Lastly, if you are not sure bring a 2 oz space blanket (some even come in bag form) and you will have insurance against anything.

I know I replied to you directly on this already but wear that rain gear on cold nights ! Its good for nearly 10* if worn between base layer and other warm cloths.

-Tim

I find extending quilts not to work so well as extending a good (ie WM bag). Part of this is because my WM has a lot more insul around the feet than the rest of the bag, and quilts dont. For instance, the double loft on my megalite might be 4" in the middle of the bag, at the feet and upper chest, its more like 7-8".

You might find yourself wanting down booties to be comfortable. Legs dont get that cold usually, upper body is supplemented with other clothing, feet suffer first.

If Tim says using raingear in the manner described will get you 10 degrees then it will given how spot on his gear has been for many end users.

Hot water bottles. On a cold night, I generally boil up water to fill two bottles, and toss them in my bag (caps on tight!) to pre-heat things. So I don't burn myself, I drop each bottle into a sock. It provides enough protection that I don't burn my skin, but not so much insulation that the heat can't get out. When I'm in the bag, I place one bottle in between my legs near by femoral artery, and one bottle tucked up in an armpit. This manages to warm my entire body.

Do you know if you are warm or cold sleepers? If the later a down jacket and trousers comb with
Booties would help.

Another option is to a wide EE Rev x 40 to layer over both your existing quilts.

I doubt it'll get in the low 20s. AZ has been very warm this winter and we're not predicted to have any cool weather any time soon. Tucson is around mid 50s at night and even if you're at Manning Camp it should drop below freezing. Call the ranger station though and see what conditions are like up top. A few years back I had to postpone a march trip a couple weeks because there was 6ft of snow at Manning. By mid April it was bone dry though and didn't get below 40F at night.

I will repeat another's question – where in SNP are you heading? Mica Mountain is just below 9000' and it will still be pretty frosty up there, but temps down in the saguaro forest will be almost ideal this time of year, barring a late winter storm – which do occur. Pay attention to the weather forecast.

The Tucson area is my home range, and I would feel pretty good about using the gear you are describing. After all, cold bags bring early starts, and early starts build character.

Your location says Arkansas. Not sure how many trips you've made to the southwest, but I have found that 20's in southeren AZ is much more tolerable than 20's in a humid climate. Down works very well in a climate like AZ. I'd bed you'll be okay with what you have, following the good advice already given above. Also, don't forget that two people under a quilt is warmer than one.

I'm leaving tomorrow for four days in the Rincon Mountains (Saguaro NP East). I anticipate temperatures no lower than freezing at 8000' and a bit warmer lower down. I'm taking a warmer bag than you but I'm nearly 80 and don't sleep as warm as I once did. Have a good insulating pad and extra clothes for sleeping. Bear in mind that you won't need the warm clothes during the day so taking a heavier bag and leaving some of the clothes behind could save weight overall.

We did a trip to the top of the Rincons last week (Spud Rock, then Manning Camp). Temps at night at Spud Rock were in the mid-30s, and my 29F bag was perfect. But we got a bit of a cold spell for our night at Manning Camp (low +/- 25F), and I was a bit cold in my bag — I wore thick long johns and put my down jacket over me inside the bag and I was ok. (Not my coziest night, but not terrible.) The winds were howling as part of the cold front, which added to my feeling cold. The forecast is warming for the next week, so I doubt it'll go lower than 30F, even at Manning Camp (the highest legal camping spot in the Rincons — no camping on Mica Mt.).
Edited to add: Make sure you bring sleeping pads with a decent R-factor. Then your 30F bags will probably be fine, with a few extra clothes.

And if you want the scoop on water availability — I can tell you. We had to fill out a water survey postcard for the Park Service (none of their people had been up there).

Daytime temps were comfortable-to-warmish (when you're in the sun), but I was wearing my down jacket by dinnertime. Fires are currently allowed, but we didn't have one (LNT), so it felt colder.

There were only a few small shaded areas at the top with actual snow cover, see photo:

If you get the chance, scramble up on top of Spud Rock — the views are outstanding!

If you have more questions, please don't hesitate to PM me. Have a great trip!

OVERFILLED BAG:
I have a Western Mountaineering Megalite bag that was, in actual experience, good to 25 F. from the factory. I sent it back to get overfilled by WM (about $45.) and it's now good to about 20 F., depending on the clothes you wear to bed, like poly long johns, for example.

DOWN TOPPER:
Below 20 F. I have a down top half of a bag (used to be zipped to a foam mattress) which I've pinned to the WM Megalite and gone comfortably to 15 F. It's probably duck down, and the down has lost a lot of loft, plus the ripstop fabric is heavy '80s style stuff. I'm going to ask WM to make me a new, light version.

PROPER MATTRESS: (etc.)
My experience shows that the Megalite is now fine in winter to a likely -5 F.
I'd bet that if I use a warm mattress (like my Thermarest Trail Pro), the down "topper", warm long johns and a balaclava that -5 F. would be near the lower limit. I've slept in those temps in lesser synthetic bags and been fine – WITH quilted long johns.

Plus, most of us pack a light down jacket that can increase our bag's range.

Joshua,

As an alternative to (expensive) down pants, you might consider surplus M-65 trouser liners. I took Paul Magnanti's advice and ordered a pair from an eBay seller prior to a late-September trip that got down to the mid 20s. They weigh a few ounces more than a good pair of down pants, but the price was certainly right, and they added welcome warmth both sitting around camp and at night.

Look for the version without side buttons for less weight and the "Long" length if you want some ankle coverage.

It's not a question someone else can answer for you without more information, because everyone is different.
As a very warm sleeper "what I would use" is meaningless to most people, unless they just want to be miserable.
Some kind of baseline, your own experience with that quilt or an EN rated bag where it is rated for X degrees, but you are comfortable to Y degrees, that gives something to compare to might be a good starting point.

Also your shelter will make a big difference up there. A tarp will help but not give you the extra warmth you may like. I was also up there at Manning Camp and Spud Rock recently and did very well in a WM Alpinlite, long underwear and I used my Yama Cirriform tent and was fine. Morning and evenings are puffy using times. Below 7500 feet it's in the 70's. And it was in the 28-30 F range at night with those 50 mph winds on top. Hopefully you won't have that high of wind speeds, but it IS March and this is the windiest month here. The snowmelt is providing some good water now. It was beautiful, enjoy!

RE: Hot Water Bottle: Great tip! Thank you! I had read something about that before.. I'll have to give it a try.

Thank you all for the insight and comments.

We'll be at Douglas Spring for 1 night, Grass Shack for 1 night, 2 nights at Manning Camp. Manning is the one I was concerned about. The documentation from the park says that Manning will average 40s in the days and 20s at night.

Based on everyone's comments, I think we'll have enough gear that we'll be fine with layering and a bit of creativity.

Thank you again!