Aluminized Cuben – Third Time is a Charm?

Just a note.

I was informed by Cubic Tech that the original aluminized Cuben fiber fabric was unique in that it blocked RF signals. Perhaps it was purpose built for this unique feature alone and not for durability.

I trust that Cubic Tech has the engineering know-how to create a fabric within very specific design requirements.

Anyway, the thanks goes to Richard, as he actually did all the work.

Cheers!

Edit: thanks Bob!

nm.

"I was informed by Cubic Tech that the original aluminized Cuben fiber fabric was unique in that it blocked RAF signals."

This is inspiring. Now the terrorists can hide from the Royal Air Force signals.

–B.G.–

Low emmissivity = condensation free tarp/tent?

It will provide reduced condensation but, IR cooling below ambient temperature, to a clear night sky, is only one of many causes.

Warmer groundsheet?

RFID Uberlight Wallet?

Warmer hammock? (Go much skimpier on underquilt, use this as outer fabric (seam seal), skimpier top tarp).

Warmer VPL gear?

Alien protection?

Instant pop-up Signal warfare tent (probably its commissioned use)?

Where does one get this cuben?

CT2K.18/KM7 is sold directly by Cubic Tech in 9M lengths or longer. It would be nice if one of the cottage guys started reselling this for the DIY crowd (hint, hint).

I will have a quantity of this material available for sale next week.

I'll post a link in the gear deals subforum when I have it in the mail.

Patience friends!

Nathan – That's great and we appreciate you taking this on. Do you know the weight and do you know if there is any difference in the bonding process as a result of it being aluminized cuben?
Thanks…Ron

confirm!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151750374592589&set=vb.178433758893205&type=3&theater

i do did a test on it.

Ron,

I haven't tested this fabric to see whether or not it is bondable. I assume it is. If anyone with experience in this wanted a small sample to do some bonding strength tests, I'm happy to mail it out.
The weight is 1.25oz/yd2

Also,
This is not an RF blocking fabric. Cubic tech no longer produces fabric that blocks RF signals. This was told to me by the company.

Nathan or Richard, which mylar surface is aluminized? Sorry if this is made clear in an earlier post and I missed it. Is the aluminum surface inside the laminate (on an inward-facing mylar surface), or on the exterior?

I spoke to someone at Cubic Tech a while ago who speculated that the aluminized cuben delamination problem might be due to the fact that the aluminum surface either bonds poorly to the lamination adhesive or else tends to peel away from its TVD substrate (the mylar). In any case, he felt that the presence of the aluminum layer in the laminate was to blame.

I assume that the aluminized surface is inside the laminate (for durability), and that the speculation by the guy at CT is wrong because Richard's tests confirm that the new stuff resists delamination. I'm only asking about it to confirm that the aluminum surface isn't on the outside, which might affect bonding (not to mention the effect on the durability of the metal layer).

Colin,

The aluminum is on the inside. Regarding adhesives for DIY projects, it is still a Mylar to Mylar bond like conventional Cuben.

My GUESS is that the aluminum coating fissure pattern allows an internal lattice-like structure for the adhesive to bond to under the internal coated aluminum. This should augment the aluminum coating bond.

Thanks, Richard. On a slightly different (but related) topic: has anyone seen emissivity data for aluminized cuben? We seem to make the collective assumption that it will perform like a space blanket, which has a bare aluminum surface. But the mylar surface of aluminized cuben should have a higher emissivity.

Richard, for aluminized cuben, is the effect of the mylar on the emissivity of the laminate negligible because the mylar is so thin? Should we expect aluminized cuben to actually have very low emissivity?

How would this fabric do for thermal blocking for use in extreme sun conditions?

Colin,

That was a very well-reasoned question! The short answer is “I have not seen any emissivity specification for this product.” Now for the long answer (smile). For those not familiar with this topic, at minimum you need to understand that a material with an emissivity of 1.0 is a perfect radiator and 0.0 would radiate no heat.

As you stated, neither the generic Mylar base-layer “Space Blankets” nor the polyethylene base-layer “Heat Sheets” have any protective coating over their aluminum layer. The bad news is that this air exposed aluminum layer can quickly oxidize and/or rub off. The good news is that all other things equal, their “when new” emissivity should be lower. Theoretically, their average 1 micron thick aluminum coating should have an emissivity of .1 – .2 when manufactured and .2 – .4 after significant oxidation. In contrast, the Cuben material has Mylar on the outside. Mylar’s emissivity will vary with its thickness but, for a representative thickness of 10 microns it is ~.4.

Updated 8/20/14:

I built a new apparatus to test emissivity in the spectrum: LWIR 8-14um. It is based on the ASTM C1371 methodology; it uses a Fluke 62 Max+ and an Excel spreadsheet to compare/integrate a high emittance and low emittance reference sample to the test sample.

I only had the aged Cuben sample to retest. The original test showed the same value for both the new and aged Cuben. The corrected test values are as follows:

Above image is from a FLIR R&D manual,

John,

To answer your question I looked through each alternative at the noon day sun. The most shielding option was the aluminized Cuben. Less effective was a Heat Sheet, which is an opaque orange color with extensive black lettering on the back. The Space Blanket was the least effective and caused a very uncomfortable glare.

The Cuben's Dyneema fiber grid looked like a dense grey sun shade grid pattern when I looked at the sun. It should be very effective as an extreme sun shelter.

Thanks, Richard.

10% off coupon for Aluminzed Cuben Among other things

Here

The reason the first version had delamination issues was due to the fact that the film was nylon and the adhesive was water based….

>>>>"I trust that Cubic Tech has the engineering know-how to create a fabric within very specific design requirements." Not to rain on anyone's parade but where were these "engineers" the first time???? They first version of the material was supposte to be 4 season shelter worthy………………..

In the conversation I had with Cubic Tech's sales person, he spoke to the original version as being designed with RF blocking as its main design component. Not sure if he was covering up something, or who it was that originally told you that version of fabric was 4 season shelter worthy. Id hope their engineets undetstood a water soluable adhesive creates an issue for a fabric for use in shelters..

I suppose it may take independent testing to confirm the claims of salespeople.

Hi Richard

The emissivity of new aluminium foil should be more like 0.1 in my experience.
I cannot comment on the others.

Cheers

I just got mine today – thanks Nathan!

wow, soooo not what I was expecting it to be.

Its very stiff… far beyond any other CF fabric I have encountered.

I was also kind of surprised that it was silver on both sides… I expected only one side to be.

Going to be fun playing around with this stuff the next couple of weeks… gotta think up some experiments to put it through!