Osprey PackSizer

Actually your girlfriend is right…many packs you do wear the hipbelt around the waist so that it rests ON TOP of the iliac crests, not squeezing them.

There are some massive packs that are designed such that the iliac crest (or the ASIS – the front pointy bone of your hip) goes right in the middle of the belt, but honestly, that's terribly uncomfortable for me. I have long put the belt around my waist and it's perfect.

I have narrow hips that don't flare out much. If I try to wear a hipbelt on my hips, it just slides down unless it is uncomfortably tight. Positioned a little higher, almost around my waist, it's more comfortable and kind of jams in place as it tries to slide down. It looks funny but carries fine. Whatever I have to do to get the weight off my shoulders….

As far as a pack-fitting app… I'm sure it will help you select the perfect Osprey pack. I see a lot of 'helpful' apps that are little more than poorly disguised advertisements.

" many packs you do wear the hipbelt around the waist so that it rests ON TOP of the iliac crests, not squeezing them."

??

Which ones, apart from those mis sized with respect to torso length?

" Which ones, apart from those mis sized with respect to torso length? "

for some of us, the answer is "any of them that are going to be tolerable".
it depends upon the shape and mass of the behind. if one has no arse to hang it on, what's the point of pretending that a hipbelt will stay put if it's sliding down over the pelvic bones ?
people are different shapes, and some of those shapes lend themselves quite nicely to hipbelts. others, do not.

you start putting serous weight in a pack, things work different than at only 25 ~ 45 pounds. it is an entirely new animal to deal with. so between perhaps the weight and the many body types, for a great many folks, wearing the belt (and thusly the pack) up higher is the path to more miles per day.

higher belt lines increase blood flow to the legs, keeps the belt looser (until it slides down), and often makes better balance.
one can, if determined, snug it so high and tight that digestion is affected (is not good).

the pack fitting trick is to get things close enough that you can have it both ways. lower maybe for higher weights where is simply will not stay up high, and still long enough a pack to not cramp the shoulders which are now laden. and a short enough pack that you can throw it up there now and again when the load is more reasonable. it is not science of rockets to see than this is what Dan McHale is doing with his Bayonet Systems that allow several lengths on demand out of a single pack.

at the end of the day, it is like boot fitting .. a real rat's nest if you are looking for optimal performance.
the result is BPL, a group dedicated to getting rid of the weight that started the issue in the first place. but then, for some of us, we just took the good of less weight, and made up for it with more food.

moral : above the hips for light loads, wrapped hips for heavy stuff.

cheers,
v.

"what's the point of pretending that a hipbelt will stay put if it's sliding down over the pelvic bones ?"

It will only slide until it rests over the sacrum and then it will sit there unless ..literally…you have no ass.

"it is not science of rockets to see than this is what Dan McHale is doing with his Bayonet Systems that allow several lengths on demand out of a single pack."

Several lengths? This is factually not true of the system.

"higher belt lines increase blood flow to the legs, keeps the belt looser (until it slides down), and often makes better balance."

Sources please.

Put on the pack and adjust the hip belt to fit your hips. Wear the hip belt on the hip bones just underneath the rib cage. The center of the hip belt is about at the crest of your pelvis. The buckle will be about at your navel. Wearing the hip belt higher transfers weight onto major muscle groups. Wearing the belt too low on the hips can compress arteries and nerves and lead to poor circulation and numbness in the legs.

` Backpacker's Field Manual (Page 41)

http://books.google.com/books?id=o2jGtzVKVnoC

I definitely fall into the 'no ass' camp. My GF, on the other hand, went back for seconds when they were serving ass. If you're saying she and I should be fitting our packs the same way, well then neither of us would be comfortable.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure the McHale bayonet system has little if anything to do with how he fits his packs, and absolutely nothing to do with his hipbelt design.

Not at all. What I am trying to understand how you don't have an ass and you have narrow hips but yet you are able to keep your belt above your hips, wearing it as a waist belt. This implies the way you wear your pack ( what is it by the way) puts a lot of the load on your shoulders and it also implies you may might need a different pack. You make it sound as though your anatomy is substantially different from an average person. I doubt it.

Thanks Glenn S for re typing all of that info…who wrote it originally? I disagree with the "major muscle" commentary. The hips are the strongest part of the body. Far more than the "core."

The author listed is:

Rick Curtis, Director, Princeton University Outdoor Action

This is obviously a matter where personal preference factors heavily. It doesn't seem reasonable to change something that's already working for you, just because some instructions say everyone should do things a certain way. Personally I find it horribly uncomfortable to wear the hipbelt on the top of my iliac crest. I always wear it lower than most guides recommend, although I do shift its position slightly a few times during the day.

"This is obviously a matter where personal preference factors heavily."

I agree… To a point. It could also be said that many long term aches and pains are associated with "bad habits" that people do because of "personal preference".

But anyway, the man asked for sources, so I posted a source. I'm sure it has significant value, but as they say, YMMV.

Good to keep in mind though, that statements like these from "sources" are typically based on averages. Some generalizations need to be drawn somewhere, or we'd never get anything standardized. I mean seriously, 7 billion people all fit into 4 sizes of gloves? Not hardly, but there needs to be some kind of "guidelines" to go off of. Hip belt placement criteria are just that; guidelines. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Not at all. What I am trying to understand how you don't have an ass and you have narrow hips but yet you are able to keep your belt above your hips, wearing it as a waist belt. This implies the way you wear your pack ( what is it by the way) puts a lot of the load on your shoulders and it also implies you may might need a different pack. You make it sound as though your anatomy is substantially different from an average person. I doubt it."

My anatomy is in fact quite different from the average person. 5'10" 135 lbs, 29" waist, 34" inseam, 74" armspan. If I wear my hipbelt centered over my illiac crest, it creeps down no matter how tight it is. This is true for all packs I've tried. If i wear it slightly higher I can cinch it just a bit tighter and it therefore cannot slip down around my hips. Don't know why this is so hard for you to visualize. And no, it doesn't load my shoulders. My pack has a reasonably stiff framesheet, and it's one torso-size smaller than my actual torso length. I'd post a picture, but I don't want to hear criticism of something that works great for me.

Not being critical, per se, I simply can't visualize how you wear the pack. It seems to me that you simply haven't found the right fitting pack, forcing you to change how to efficiently wear a pack to match the poor design of the hipbelt and lumbar pad. But if it 'works' for you, then good stuff. Sounds uncomfortable to me.

I think Daniel (or GF) is generally following the recomendations of at least a couple of pack makers. I am also posterior challenged and wear my pack the same way. The key to this being comfortable and effective is the design of the hipbelt. I find the belt of my new Mchale, Paradox evolution and an old Kelty external in my garage all have pliable hipbelts that wrap the waist/hips completely without over tightening. Many popular packs that have bulky lumbar pads and or belt stiffeners didn't work for me and need to be tightened to an extreme and still slide off soon enough. My experience is that the middle of the hipbelt should be pretty near your elbow re: distance from the ground.

Having fit hundreds of packs from scores of manufacturers over a long period of time, I can say that the primary "rule of thumb" toward pack fitting has always been to understand what the pack manufacturer "intended" first, and then see if that actually works for the customer. Some packs are clearly intended to rest higher on the back, while some are just the opposite. But if one uses the pack in a way that is "not what is intended" by the manufacturer, it doesn't mean that the pack will feel totally unfomcortable.

The biggiest issue I saw was people ignoring the previously mentioned "treat packfitting like shoe fitting " mindset, and do whatever they could to fit into a pack "because it's was made by some cool company", missing the opportunity to find one that might actually fit much better for them.

And not to mention properly adjusting all the load lifter/ sternum strap upper suspension mess…