Mar 11, 2014 at 7:05 am #1314289
Hi guys, I wanted to let any interested parties here know that we have developed a lighter alternative to the Paradox Evolution platform.
The Unaweep is bare bones. No excess, no extras, nothing that is not essential for core function. It does not offer detachable pack bags or a load shelf feature like the Evolution does, but because of that it is cheaper and lighter. The Unaweep is optimized to use a 26" frame which is a great size for general uses.
Red VX07 with Talon compression panel – 2 lbs 12 oz, load rating of 100+ lbs. Introductory price is $379.
I appreciate all the feedback we have gotten from the good people on this forum. We have come a long way in a short amount of time, and it is in large part due to the comments and ideas of gear nuts and customers.
NathanMar 11, 2014 at 7:21 am #2081762
Wow. The new standard in UL load hauling? Great job!
Is the torso adjustable? Does it have the same belt as the regular packs?Mar 11, 2014 at 8:01 am #2081772
The torso is adjustable to fit 15" to 20" torsos. We have the ability to extend that range of adjustment with different frame heights.
Bottom line, the Unaweep can fit torsos of 14-22". If you're outside of the 15-20" range let us know up front.
This pack uses the same belt and harness as the Evolution, and the same frame. So really the load rating should be 100 lbs with UL frame and 150+ with the standard frame.Mar 11, 2014 at 8:26 am #2081775
Thanks Nathan – just sent you an email through your website.Mar 11, 2014 at 9:10 am #2081785
@johnnyh88Locale: The SouthWest
Do you have any close-up photos of the side pockets or harness?
And is the Talon removable, or is it required for compression?Mar 11, 2014 at 9:21 am #2081787
@philip-akLocale: Kodiak Alaska
You guys probably make nice stuff, but it is really hard to tell from the images on the websites what designs are all about. The pics are tiny, the items are far away, and the angles don't really show anything interesting (straight profiles are the least informative angles for packs imo). I'm not trying to criticize, just offer a heads up on what this consumer would like to see before considering a purchase. Lots of large closeups and well-lit glam shots from many angles moves product.Mar 11, 2014 at 11:16 am #2081819
The Talon is removable. Without the Talon the pack is about 2 lbs 8 oz.
Phillip, thanks for the input. We're working to upgrade media as time allows. You should be able to see a big improvement in pictures within the next month or two. We are aware that this is a weak point for us. We consciously choose to put resources into our gear instead of sharp marketing. Good gear will sell itself. Though good gear with good pictures will sell faster. :)Mar 11, 2014 at 11:21 am #2081820
@pastyj-2-2Locale: SE US
Great pictures will allow the (potential) consumer to determine if the gear meets their needs or addresses issues that are important to them.
I love seeing new ideas but have to agree with Philip…as it stands, its impossible for me to evaluate the benefits of your designs as I cannot determine what the new/unique design elements are.Mar 11, 2014 at 11:29 am #2081822
"Good gear will sell itself."
Only if people can tell it's good gear. Pictures that show your gear and illustrate how it stands out is not 'sharp marketing,' it's an important facet of customer service and you should look at it that way, IMO. After all, the landscape truly is littered with great ideas and great products that never caught on, so the idea that 'good gear will sell itself' is simply not often true.Mar 11, 2014 at 12:30 pm #2081845
@philip-akLocale: Kodiak Alaska
I don't mean this to sound harsh, just an observation:
The image that opens this thread is a good example of how not to announce a product, unless it is meant as a tease and you want to hide details because it's a prototype (or similar rationale).
The image is badly backlit, the pack is underexposed on most of the surfaces the viewer has access to, the pack occupies a fraction of the image area, and it generally does not convey anything about the product. I don't mean you need a studio lighting setup, but frame-filling images taken against a blank wall with indirect light (e.g., in the full shadow of a wall on a sunny day) will do a lot to visually convey the features you guys are trying to promote.
I'd love to know more about your packs as I have been looking for something along these lines (I also have a Kuiu Icon I have done MYOG mods to), but I have found this to be a bit frustrating.Mar 11, 2014 at 5:24 pm #2081933
Guys, thanks for the feedback. Among competing priorities of getting orders filled, packs built, and frames bent the media has taken a bit of a backseat. That will change in the next few weeks.
Phillip, the Unaweep photo is a bit of a teaser. That is a pic of the first makeup that Kevin was testing, and it was probably after he drug it along slickrock and then tumbled it down a slope to test the VX07 durability in comparison to VX21. So that particular pack was probably too dirty for up close glamour shots. More and better photos will be coming.
NathanMar 11, 2014 at 5:41 pm #2081939
Very interesting, but I've got some questions:
1) How much does this set-up weigh if you choose the UL frame?
2) How much does this draw string base talon weigh?
3) Have you thought of offering the standard base talon as an option? The standard talon is only 5 oz., so the increase in durability (with very little weight gain) over this mesh one seems worthwhile in an area so prone to abrasion.
4) It would be great if you could get a picture for us that shows the front of the pack rather than the sides, so that we can see this new talon.Mar 14, 2014 at 4:32 am #2082704
The weight with UL frame is 2 lbs 12 oz. we are offering the UL frame as standard.
The Mesh Talon is around 4 oz, and you will be able to upgrade to the Base Talon.
Better photos are coming.Mar 14, 2014 at 6:58 am #2082724
@beaullieuLocale: North Georgia
I purchased an Evolution 4800 pack in VX21, standard talon and lid with an ultralight frame back in February. Interestingly, it was shipped this week and should be waiting for me when I get home from work today.
I saw the Unaweep on your site and this site for the first time this morning and I am very interested in adding the Unaweep bag to my gear. Your site indicated that the Unaweep bag will fit on an existing Ultralite frame. Can you describe in more detail what comes off the frame setup and what stays on. Also would like to get pricing on the Unaweep bag by itself as there was no price on your site this morning….
Bob BeaullieuMar 14, 2014 at 7:00 am #2082725
@beaullieuLocale: North Georgia
One more question about fitting the Unaweep bag to an existing Evolution Ultralite frame set up. My frame is 24" with the 4" extensions. The Unaweep setup uses a 26" frame so how do you fit it to my set up?
Bob BeaullieuMar 14, 2014 at 9:53 am #2082746
@davecLocale: Crown of the Continent
Robert, the upper and lower encasement are (in essence) sewn to the bag with the Unaweep. You'd remove your frame (with belt attached) from the standard Evo and insert it into the Unaweep, then thread the harness on as well.
You could have a Unaweep made from either 24" or 28" frames. I think, but am not sure, that a Unaweep could be made which would work with both, naturally with a slight increase in weight.
A 3900 cubic inch Unaweep built around a 24" frame would be a great compliment to your standard rig for lighter trips. I've got a 21" torso, and the 24" frame height is good to go up to around 50 pounds.Mar 14, 2014 at 10:08 am #2082753
If you guys send me a pack in the mail, I'll take really high-definition pictures of every part of it and send the bag right back to you, and e-mail you the shots for your use. I would probably take the pictures outside (so I might wait for a sunny day). It'll look really good on your site.
I've got a lot of posts here so it'd be really detrimental to me and my career, which is right over there under my name, if I were to steal the bag ;D
Let me know if you want help. It's free!
-MaxMar 14, 2014 at 10:14 am #2082755
"A 3900 cubic inch Unaweep"
At this point, I believe, there is no intention of making such an animal (too bad).Mar 15, 2014 at 5:16 am #2082941
Bob, Dave already answered most of what you asked. The Unaweep will work on a 24 or 28 inch frame but is optimized for a 26. A set of 2" extensions is all you'll need to accomplish that. They will be offered soon along with the bag by itself.
I'll also add that Dave's load rating is accurate. I can carry 40-50 lbs on the 24 inch frame comfortably, but I do have to pay more attention to load placement and distribution than with a 28 inch frame.
We developed the 4800 ci Unaweep first because it is a great size for general use. Big enough for short winter or long summer trips, but it compresses very nicely and really doesn't feel too big.Mar 15, 2014 at 6:13 pm #2083061
Nathan thanks for answering my questions, but I now have 2 more comments/questions.
1)On your site, it looks like only the vx07 is being offered without a zipper. It would be nice if the heavier xpac like the vx21 was also made available without a zipper for those who want the abrasion resistance of vx21, but not the weight gain or just don't have a use for the side zipper.
2) It says on the paradox site: "Standard Frame Size: 26 inch, can be worn on 24 – 28 inch variations," . What does this mean? Does this just mean that you can order the Unaweep with a 24 or 28 inch frame in addition to the 28 inch frame? Also, I like the idea of 2 inch extensions that you mentioned on another site, which could make this a great load hauler at 26" and decent for scrambling in 24" configuration.Mar 17, 2014 at 7:36 am #2083459
@ktimmLocale: Colorado (SeekOutside)
Max thanks for the offer we might take you up on it ;)
The Unaweep is optimized for 26 inch frame, but will work on a 28 , it will just be sort of a partial bag / like old externals. It will work on a 24 as well. It basically, just sort of slides up the frame and anchors via hold down straps. At 24 it covers the entire frame, at 26 it has a small gap at the bottom and at 28 the gap increases to about 4 inches.
Regarding bag sizing, a 3900 would be a nice size and we can consider it if we know there are enough orders to do a production run. With the Unaweep, and I am being real honest from a production standpoint, we are trying to bring down price by offering a more standardized options. Customizing each bag, increases cut / sew / management and delivery time. Being more standardized, reduces those and allows us to offer it at a lower price point and once past the first production run, faster lead times, perhaps shipping within a few days for standardized variations vs 4 to 8 weeks for more customized stuff. Heck, we would even be willing to a do a Cuben 3900 run , if there was enough to support a small production run.
So here is what to do, regarding desiring of pack bags. Please send us an email at email@example.com , use the subject line of Unaweep Feature Request. State the sizing and fabric and zipper or no zipper orientation you would like , as well as anything else. We will take these comments, and see if there is a very common thread, and if so add it into our production. We also, may respond back wanting more details. Sound good ?
Now, we added a couple ounces back in on the Unaweep to increase the overall robustness of the design. These packs are still used for heavy loads, and we would rather build them to give many many years of reliable service , even if it adds an ounce or two. We know how we can strip a few ounces and be more inline with UL production methods, but we prefer to strike a balance of long term durability.
Here is the official word on packbag sizing as well. The 4800 is officially, 4950 CI with 3 rolls at 33 inch height. This does not include Water bottle Pockets which ad 500 CI. When rolled down to frame height on a 26 inch frame it is 3900 interior volume.
While on the subject, how do you feel about other colors, like blue , etc. Any particular color you love ?
Here is a link with some more photos
UnaweepMar 25, 2014 at 7:15 am #2085949
We've added a 3900 ci size option to the Unaweep line.Jun 13, 2014 at 1:29 pm #2111335
@robleeLocale: Southern High Plains
I just became aware of these packs. Interesting design.Hope to see Dave C's report soon. Couple more ques:
What is the shape of the bottom of the water bottle pocket? Flat, like the bottom of a gator-aid bottle or tapered so a bottle won't rest fully at bottom of pocket?
Will the roll top buckles clip to each other, dry bag style?
If you want the pack to sit upright on the ground is it best to have the 26' frame?
Is the load sling permanent? How does it attach to each side of the pack? Is it important to keep the bag from sagging? Could you use the sling to attach an item to the bottom of the pack?
Some of the pics suggest the bottom side compression strap (both with and without the Talon)may interfere with the bottle pocket. Can you elaborate please.
Any additional colors yet? many pics of red, but it seems not an option now. ThanksJun 13, 2014 at 2:10 pm #2111350
@davecLocale: Crown of the Continent
Rob, here are some photos and numbers from the 3900 Unaweep in VX42: http://bedrockandparadox.com/2014/05/05/paradox-unaweep/
I really, really like it. Aside from a 25ish liter frameless pack for day stuff and short summer trips, the Unaweep checks all boxes. It's heavier than the numerous 40-50 liter light internal-frame packs I have, but carries anything less than a perfect load so much better that it's hard to not bring the Unaweep. Two weeks ago I brought one of my homemade packs along on a trip to save a bit of weight. I had right around 30 pounds to start, half of which was packrafting stuff and snowshoes (strapped to the back). It didn't take long for me to regret not bringing the Unaweep.
To answer your questions:
-The side pockets are a piece of fabric wider (front to back) than the sidepanel, sewn with pleats in the bottom. They don't cradle things quite like a shaped, three dimensional pocket. They still easily fit a nalgene when the pack is full. The upside of this design is that they lay flat when not in use, and are faster and simpler (cheaper) to sew.
-The rolltop buckles clip to each other. I always use it like this.
-Probably. I don't think a 24 inch frame would be an issue in this respect, a 28 inch frame might stick down a bit from the packbag if the pack is really crammed full.
-The load sling is a rectangular piece of cordura sewn into the bottom seam. It wraps up over the bottom and attaches to either the bottom side compression straps or the buckles on the bottom of one of the talons. I prefer to use it with a talon. You can use it to compress the bottom of the pack if you have a small load, or hold something like a sleeping pad underneath a full bag. I like to stash small game shot in the field here. It also provides a double bottom over most of the base, enhancing abrasion resistance.Jun 13, 2014 at 2:19 pm #2111352
@robleeLocale: Southern High Plains
Found Dave's review on his site after posting the above. He had some nice views that answered most of my ques. One thing I noticed was the height of the bottle pocket. It would be great if they were high enough to go above the shoulder of a nalgene to prevent it from falling out. Lookin' to treat myself so I get hung up on minutia to justify the expense.
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