Jul 24, 2007 at 7:20 pm #1224257
@bugbombLocale: South Texas
Companion forum thread to:Jul 24, 2007 at 8:41 pm #1396399
@marti124Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
I'm curious about 100% locking reliability. I used to use Trek Poles which lock 100% solid but they no longer make the ultralight version that locks 100% solid (the new one uses rubber cords and can be stretched outwards, which I hate). My old Trek Pole broke so I went with the Black Diamond as they seem to be 100% locking reliable whereas my experience with the other two big brands I felt they could slip under heavy weight (I know they do, I bought a Komperdel (sp?) and it slipped). I got the Leki to slip at REI. I'm willing to sacrifice 1-2 ounces extra weight for the 100% locking reliability feature. I go out for 17 days next week and will be using the Black Diamond poles for the first time.Jul 25, 2007 at 5:45 am #1396419
I have an old pair of BD Expedition poles that only have flicklocks. If you adjust the flicklocks properly with the screws then you need quite a lot of force to get the flicklocks open, so you definitely won't be able to do it with just a simple flick of your thumb – unless you have very strong thumbs. Perhaps the newer models are different? The flipside is that the poles never slip, unlike any other pole I've used. Likewise, I don't think a branch could shift a flicklock if it was properly adjusted – I've thrown my poles down short cliffs when I've been scrambling and that hasn't affected their adjustment. Also, I've never had any problems with getting dirt etc in the flicklocks themselves, but if any did get in it would be easily fixed.Jul 25, 2007 at 9:38 am #1396437
@kdesignLocale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Nothing, but nothing, beats the reliability of Flicklocks—-I've tried every conceivable alternative over many seasons. experiencing jamming or slippage and sometimes both on the same pole. At least in the realm of adjustable poles, for me, reliability trumps weight. This may be more true for some of us taller types of say 170 Lbs. or more. I suspect we exert a lot more force on the locking mechanisms. But with Flicklocks, never a field failure, Summer or Winter—-easily cleaned—and no lost screws, a complaint I heard applying to an earlier generation of Flicklocks. Their only downside is weight—however, this may be changing. In Britain, Brasher is going to introduce an all carbon pole w/ a Flicklock style adjustment mechanism at a weigh of about 5 1/2 oz. a pole. See the Outdoors Magic site or my earlier post on this subject.
On backpacks of a more trail oriented nature where I like a trekking pole (or poles) in hand and adjustability is not a concern, I definitely go for the weight savings and use fixed GG Light Trek poles.
For me, the verdict is still out on the Ti Goat Poles–the current weight champion among adjustable trekking poles. I'd love to hear field reports of it's reliability. Not only as an adjustable pole but if it is stiff enough to serve as reliable poles for Tarp pitching.
A.—you might be pleasently surprised to find the latest Flicklocks easier to open w/ thumb onlyJul 25, 2007 at 10:22 am #1396443
I have used BD poles exclusively for the last couple of years, mostly due to the reliability of the flicklock mechanism. I moved from the Contour (19 oz for the pair) to the ellipse-shaped Spire (20 oz a pair) this summer, and was even more pleased. The binary lock for the bottom section is easier to use since the lower section cannot twist and throw the spurs out of alignment (which I believe to be the biggest reason some hikers have trouble closing them).
I am encouraged to see the lighter weight option now available in the Enduro.Jul 25, 2007 at 1:11 pm #1396468
"A.—you might be pleasently surprised to find the latest Flicklocks easier to open w/ thumb only"
Ummm … it's possible that I may have been over-tightening them … but they are very secure …Jul 25, 2007 at 1:59 pm #1396473
I second that. I've had numerous pole systems break/slip/snap but NEVER with a flicklock. The old bd expeditiond I use aren't very light, but they can be counted on to HOLD and take abuse.
I'm 220 and have never found a pole I could put all my weight on until I tried a flicklock If it's not a flicklock, it's not for me.Jul 25, 2007 at 4:18 pm #1396487
@pecosLocale: baba yaga's porch
The softer plastic on the baskets seems like a good thing to me. The threads on them shouldn’t be “improved” by hardening them. They break down before the threads on your pole so as to improve the life of your pole. I think that’s a bonus. The baskets for my cheapie poles destroyed the threads on it, now I get no baskets :(Aug 1, 2007 at 8:41 am #1397039
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
WHY would BD put the carbon fiber in the BOTTOM section?? Carbon fiber shafts are most vulnerable to lateral blows. Their strength is in vertical compression. (As a former XC racer who's used CF poles regularly I sadly know this weak point.)
To have REAL weight savings the top TWO sections should be CF. FlickLoc mechanisms really aren't that heavy when compared to the external collars & internal ferrules/collets of conventional twist lock poles. Maybe they could be a bit slimmer.Aug 1, 2007 at 9:04 am #1397045
@ryanLocale: Northern Rockies
It does sound counterintuitive but there is a reason.
If you put CF in the top and leave the bottom Al, then because CF has a lower density than Al, you will have a higher moment arm acting around the pivot point (your hand) because the center of mass of the pole will be at a location farther away from your hand than if there was a CF bottom section and Al top section.
Or, in other words, a CF bottom section makes for an easier swing.Aug 1, 2007 at 10:11 am #1397060
And the top or middle sections would take the most bending moment under most uses. I presume the aluminum is stronger in bending as it is in shear.Aug 3, 2007 at 5:50 am #1397297
@bugbombLocale: South Texas
The byline for the article referenced in this thread has been changed. It was incorrectly attributed to Doug Johnson – the correct author is Matt Eckhart.Aug 8, 2007 at 7:11 am #1397792
@james-cowderyLocale: Central Florida
A tube is one of the strongest structural shapes that can be made. Failures seldom come from compressive or tensile forces but usually occur when the tube is forced to bend and the shape becomes deformed. I’ve broken several poles and they have always broken at the base as a result of tube deformations and bending (getting stuck between two rocks.)
Does anyone know if there are any lightweight foam systems that could be injected into the bottom 6” of a pole to help prevent these deformations?
I also have shifted to flick-locks. I am partially blind and need poles to help find my next step when going downhill. It is not fun to have a pole collapse as you place weight on it when you are going downhill. The obvious consequence is a misstep or fall. My flick-locks have never slipped!! Nice to see some light weight alternatives becoming available.Oct 4, 2007 at 1:29 pm #1404551
I purchase the Enduro for a trip to the Rockies while returning Komperdell duo C3 CF, ( locks failed and sections pulled apart ). Alas, the Enduro's vibrate with a guitar style "twang" that is beyond anything I've ever seen. I had sore wrists and forearms in a matter of hours. My old much cheaper BD's are far better. That said. Flick-lock's are the best- bar none!
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