Rain Jacket suggestions – Plasmic?

I love my Mountain Hardwear Plasmic. I found it to be quite breathable, and at 10 ounces, it's at pretty good weight.
I think it was discussed on one of the threads here that the Dry.Q Evap material used in the Plasmic was basically the same as the eVent 2.5 DVL. I think that there was some disagreement about it, but here are the facts: It looks like it (the pattern and design). It breathes very well. And it is made by GE (just like eVent). It's a great jacket IMO, whether it is eVent or not though.
Check Steep and Cheap. They run it on sale for <$70 from time to time if I recall correctly.

I don't have experience with the Mountain Hardwear jacket you mention, but I will say a $100 budget will limit your options quite a bit. Event comes in different versions; I have heard some good reports on the 3 layer fabrics in terms of breathability and durability but they come at a weight penalty and are outside of your budget. The Marmot Precip is a great budget jacket IMO, but it isn't super durable and doesn't breath much. OR Helium II is also popular; you might find it on sale for closer to $100. Lots of people will recommend Dri-Ducks as a cheap raingear option and I can't really argue against it… maybe the waste they create because of their disposability. I have a Luke's Ultralite Goretex paclite jacket, very simple/spartan, for $130 with taped seams, Luke will custom size your jacket too.

Search for Richard Nilsey's posts for info on waterproofness and breathability of the different materials available today. Lot's of stuff to search in the database on this topic. Sometimes it helps to include the year 2013 or 2014 in your query to get more up to date results. Hope this helps.

The state of the market may have changed less the you think.

Your answer depends on your needs. If you are wearing it a lot, breathability is probably important. In that case, I would recommend the Stoic Vaporshell; its very breathable and under $100 on sale, which it usually is.

I like eVent but its hard to get a light eVent jacket less than $100.

If you only wear it occasionally, then one of the PU coated jackets may suit you well. They are lighter but don't breath as well. OR Helium or Rab Pulse may be able to be purchased for under $100 on sale. There are lots of other options in this class too. I think the Plasmic falls in this category, but the OR and Rab are lighter. The PU coated jackets are prone to delamination.

Dri ducks are a great option. They are lighter than anything else you are looking at. They are more breathable than anything in your price range other than the Vaporshell. They cost $20 with pants. They are a little fragile but can last a long time with care. The can also be easily repaired easily.

Honestly I am able to spend more than 100, maybe 150, but I am trying to stay around 100. I live in central CA, mnost of my backpacking is done in Big Sur, where until recently it normally rains alot in the winter. Other then in winter it doesn't rain much at all, and the rain jacket will stay home.

I do plan on doing some trips in other places where it may rain more (like the PNW), and I will be in my jacket more often then not.

What I am not interested in is durability issues with the PU options, and Driducks is out for sure in my book for that reason. I want to be able to take this jacket in varying conditions and locations and have it last for a while. So if I need to spend more then 100 to accomplish this I certainly will.

I will look into Luke's jackets and Richard Nisley's findings on materials, as well as the other options mentioned. And thanks for the tip on searching, I just recently discovered including 2013 or 14 really helps with up to date info.

Loving BPL, don't know how I survived without it, much love.

EDIT: typos

I'd say it's really more a matter of your WEIGHT budget. There are lots of jackets out there, but your choice of weight is what will narrow the field. eVent is nice stuff, but finding one under $150 will take some bargain hunting. Finding a truly UL one may not be possible.

My go to hiking rain jacket is one of the Outdoor Research Panorama jackets that has the TorsoFlo side zippers. You can unzip the sides all the way to the hem and leave the front of the jacket over your waist belt for excellent ventilation. My XL size is 14.6oz. I see there are several vendors with sales well under $100.

Since you are hiking in areas with less rainfall, how about a poncho? $60, 7oz, lots of ventilation, good emergency day hiking shelter and keeps your whole pack dry too. You could spend all kinds of money on a jacket that light and still have a sweatbox.

For that matter, a hiker in Southern California may get more use from a Golite Chrome Dome umbrella.

Instead of focusing on the brand, I would focus on the best "technology" for the rain jacket to suit your purposes.

In a nutshell, there are three basic genres:

1) PU coatings. These are the jackets from quality manufactures (Marmot, Patagonia, LLBEAN, etc.) in the $75 to $100 range. Good, basic quality. Can be reasonably light (10 ounces). Can serve for rain shell use or even winter shell use over a fleece in a pinch. Not terribly comfortable.

2. Two-layer membrane. This is a laminated film bonded to the inside of the fabric. The membrane can be PU or some fancy proprietary ePTFE (GoreTex PacLight or eVent 2.5). If they print some fancy pattern on it with resulting miracle claims it's a 2.5 layer jacket. The advantage is that the membrane can be thinner than a PU coating. It will probably "breathe" a little better and may be lighter. It's probably a worthwhile step up if you can find one in the $100 range. I lucked into a bargain on an ultra-light laminate that weighs 6 ounces. Perfect for something that I always carry and hope to wear as seldom as I possibly can.

3. Three-layer membrane. This the same laminate film sandwiched between two layers of fabric. Think GoreTex ProShell, although there are plenty of less expensive non-Goretex versions. These are awesome winter shells and would be my choice when faced with prolonged exposure to really bad weather. But, they are expensive, tend to be heavier (my GoreTex ProShell is right around 15 ounces, heavier than a PreCip coated jacket). I don't think this makes much sense (and certainly not a value choice) in a "sit at the bottom of the backpack most of the time" rain jacket.

del

Outdoor Research is AMAZING on customer service and warranty.

I prefer the breathability of eVent so I can use my rain parka as a windshirt as well.

Although it weighs exactly 1 lb. I prefer my REI Kimtah eVent parka to lighter ones for its durability in brush. I frequently go cross country and need this toughness in rain gear. I haven't found a better eVent parka at that price.

I also have the Kimtah eVent rain pants.

or their equivalents. My O2 Rainshield lasted the entire CDT. There was tons of bushwhacking and tons of rain–I wore it probably 2/3 of days on the hike.

Why anyone spends more than $30 on a rain jacket is beyond me. eVent is heavier than polypropylene. Most other fabrics are heavier AND less breathable than polypropylene. It's not even a contest.

Worth a mention- Rab Kinetic on sale Campsaver for $132. Very nice review on this site somewhere, features beyond the Pulse that one might value(full zip, nice chest pockets)

I cannot comment on durability. Fabric- Pertex Shield+ -is nice.

Dale,
As far as weight, I am certainly not UL (yet) but weight does matter. It looks like most of the options in the state of the market report were under 8 oz. While that sounds nice I wouldn't mind carrying a little more then that. The plasmic jacket weighs 10.2 oz according to their website. I think this is reasonable for me, and the Panorama at 14.6oz is the most I would want to carry. I would be a size medium or large so that jacket would be a bit lighter in my size as well. And thanks for the suggestion on the poncho! I read something about being able to bush whack with a silnylon poncho and plenty of breathability with the open sides. Eventually i would get a poncho for sure, doubling as a pack cover. ut for now I need something I can go around town in as well, just personal preference.

HWC 1954,
Thanks for the clarification on the different genres, it seems the 2.5 layer approach would be best for my needs. The Plasmic seems just right at 10.2 oz, 2.5 layer laminate. And i get the REI return policy.

As far as customer service, I am aware of the Patagonia and Eddie bauer guarantee, does MH offer anything like that? Customer service?

nm

If you're anywhere near Santa Cruz, it might be worth your time to stop by the Patagonia outlet and Down Works across the street. The Patagonia outlet offers significant discounts on everything in the store. Down Works is an amazing store with tons of UL gear that carries Montbell, RAB, plus many others.

http://www.downworks.com/downworks/Welcome.html

del

"I think this purchase would be a mistake if LONGTERM DURABILITY is valued over weight, especially regarding the new REI return policy."

My understanding is that the REI return policy still covers gear failures. If you want to take it back because you don't like the fit or the color, or it's not warm enough, it needs to be returned in the first year. If it delaminates or the seams fail, they will still cover it after a year.

"We stand behind everything we sell. If you are not satisfied with your REI purchase, you can return it for a replacement or refund. Items must be returned within a year of purchase, except items purchased from REI-OUTLET which must be returned within 30 days of purchase.
REI’s guarantee doesn’t cover ordinary wear and tear or damage caused by improper use or accidents.
If your item has a manufacturing defect in its materials or workmanship, you can return it at any time. See our limited warranty."

"If your item has a manufacturing defect in its materials or workmanship, you can return it at any time. Many of our items also have a separate warranty from the manufacturer, and you can also return any of those items that don’t meet the manufacturer's warranty.
This limited warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may have other rights which vary from state to state."

That aside, something like a Marmot Precip is a good balance of cost and performance and fine around town.

I haven't seen a sub 10 ounce jacket that has any real breathability and any hope of durability. Most super light jackets have no ventilation features which equals FAIL in my book. Yes, they are light, but you won't want to wear one climbing PNW switchbacks all day in cold rain and high humidity. I would use a DriDucks first.

OR has a stellar return policy as does EB and MEC

Delamination after a few years of occasional use is not unknown with ANY brand

The above companies have an explicitely stated no questions asked unlimited return policy

As for marmot … Do a search for "marmot delamination" or "marmot delaminate" and youll figure it out

;)

I love my O2 Rainshield jacket. It's been in my commuting backpack every day for about 5 years and has never torn. It's very light. The inner face of the material is textured so it is comfortable next to the skin. The jacket breathes pretty darn well.

Some shortcomings: The rear of the jacket is nice and long (being designed for cyclists), but the front of the jacket is on the short side. It has a hood, but it's not a storm hood. The front zipper flap on mine is always open and doesn't protect the zipper at all. (If you were expecting life-threatening cold rain conditions, you might to want to consider other jackets.) And here are no pockets.

Paul or Scott,

Is an o2 rain shell basically the same thing as driducks? Is it more durable?

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep worrying about delamination in any of the name brand rain jackets. The reality of Asian manufacturing is that, notwithstanding the attempt to make you believe each brand has a team of mad scientist in a secret mountain lair, this stuff is all made in a handful of OEM factories, using coatings and laminates from a handful of OEM vendors. Marmot or LLBEAN or Patagonia does not actually stir their own secret PU coating over a boiling witches cauldren.

Has every company seen PU coatings delaminate? Heck yeah. I think everything made in the 1990s delaminated eventually. Has every company seen improvements in coatings and laminates and the manufacturing process to apply them? Heck yeah.

When you read reports of "delamination" as you will for any high volume brand, keep in mind that the $75 basic PU coated rain shell is usually the biggest selling product for all of these companies. They are sold in very high volumes and get used under a very wide variety of conditions. Left in oven hot cars in the summer and so on and so forth.

Is there a chance that you could buy a PU coated or laminated rain jacket today and have it fail at some point? Sure. There's a chance that your TV could break. Not something that would worry me about any recognizable brand.

quite a few BPLers have had issues with rain jackets delaminating … its not not all that uncommon

in talking with the nice MEC folks at the warranty desk, its one of the most common gear issues that they see … i know several partners who have had their jackets delaminate

as to marmot .. a quick 2 min search of "marmot delaminate" and "marmot delamination" gives … the below includes some BPL members

Thought this would be a good jacket for cycle touring. I was wrong.

few years ago I went through two Marmot rain jackets with PU coatings (first a precip then a better $200 one, can't remember the name) in less than 6 months, wearing it only occasionally during morning bus commute if it was raining (so maybe 3 times a week, no heavy pack or sustained walking) and both jackets began delaminating all over the place and essentially ballooning between the fabric and the laminate (like a bubble in pizza dough when baking)

theres TONS more i didnt post … BPLers can do the search for themselves

Event and polartec NeoShell(a new fabric) are the most breathable fabrics available but they weigh more then most other fabric and cost more. You are going to have a hard time finding Event, NeoShell, or gortex jacket for about $100. You are likely going to spend about 200 for a Event jacket and even more for a Neoshell jacket.

I have a WestComb Specter LT Event jacket and it is a basic no bells and whistles jacket with a god hood. its 12 oz and but it cost about double your budget. They also sell the Focus LT which is made from the newer lighter Event DVL fabric that weighs about 10oz.

As to delamination that is mainly a PU issue. Even if you store a PU jacket in ideal conditions, the PU will eventually degrade, delaminate, or fail in some way. PU just doesn't last.PU however is cheap, somewhat breathable, and light weight.

For Event and Gortex delamination is not a common problem. There have been delamination reports for both but that was years ago and the failed jackets were replaced under warrenty. Event and Gortex have improved their processes so delamination is rare in a event or gortex jacket.

Also keep in mind most PU jackets are only Vapor permeable. This means the interior of the jacket must get hot and humid before PU will start moving the vapor out. So you are likely to condensation issues before fabric starts to breath.

Event and NeoShell are instead Air permeable. That means air can pass right through the fabric. The instant you put on a air permeable jacket you get maximum breathability.

while 3 layer jackets should be more durable enough example about of folks with both goretex and event delamination and failure … as a simple search will show

http://www.google.ca/#q=gore+tex+delamination

or the STOM 2012 BPL rain jacket review ….

Most disturbing of all, the Spektr failed utterly in the waterproofness department, and after a modest amount of use. I noticed some significant fabric fuzzing after my testing, but thought little of it when I sent it to Alaska for BPL writer, champion wilderness racer, and notorious gear killer Luc Mehl to use. He took it on a travese of the Aniakchak crater out near the Aleutians and got “pretty much soaked” by rain leaking in under the pack straps. I was shocked to hear this, as the test jacket had, by that point, fewer than 20 days in the field. I had even cleaned the jacket before sending it north to ensure the DWR was in good shape. The only conclusion I can draw is that fabric abrasion caused laminate failure, and that Montane has some work to do on the durability of this particular form of eVent.

The Spektr has a fantastic athletic fit and the breathability of eVent. Unfortunately, marginal construction and poor face fabric prevent me from recommending it to anyone.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ul_wpb_jackets_sotmr_part2.html

ill repeat it again …. rain jacket failure is one of the more common things to go wrong with outdoor gear … especially up here in the PNW where people who take the bus, bike or walk wear their rain gear for large parts of the year

;)

"Also keep in mind most PU jackets are only Vapor permeable. This means the interior of the jacket must get hot and humid before PU will start moving the vapor out. So you are likely to condensation issues before fabric starts to breath.

Event and NeoShell are instead Air permeable. That means air can pass right through the fabric. The instant you put on a air permeable jacket you get maximum breathability."

Oh, there are couple more: Breeze Dry-tec from Montbell, Omnidry from Columbia, NanoPro from Marmot, Texapore O2 from Jack Wolfskin, …