Patagonia Expedition 4 knock-off

MEC T2

spider hoody

T2 is still on clearance at MEC

;)

Marmot sells 1/2 zip pullovers and hoodys made with the same Power Dry High Efficiency fabrics as the current Cap 4 pieces.

http://marmot.com/products/details/womens-thermo-hoody

http://marmot.com/products/details/womens-thermo-12-zip

I don't know how their fit compares to Patagonias. Marmot describes them as an "athletic" fit. In men's baselayers, their stuff tends to be form fitting, but not skinny jeans hipster slimfit. I'll let you know tomorrow as far as men's fit. I've got the Marmot hoody and a Cap 4 piece on the way.

The only difference I can see is that Marmot uses a thinner single layer hood. Patagonia uses double layer fabric for the hood.

Patagonia (the Cap4) also doubles up the fabric above the shoulders.

I would live in my Cap4 1/4 zip hoodie 24/7 if it was acceptable.

HTH

KJ

Donna, I had the women's version and ended up sending it back for the mens. It fit me way better for some strange reason.

" I had the women's version and ended up sending it back"

Maybe you don't have the proper posture ….

Jennifer, what size do you wear? I wear medium, but can get by with a men's small.

A Women's T2, medium, came up on Gear Swap.

I asked about the fit for: My SO is 5'6", broad shouldered, minimal bust, and about 135#.

The reply was something like "I'm similar and it is tight."

Cabelas carries some Power Dry women's tops:

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search/?N=5102737&Ne=5102737&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=power+dry&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products&WTz_st=SearchRefinements&form_state=searchForm&search=power+dry&searchTypeByFilter=AllProducts

Greg, the women's medium has a weird fit to it, this is why I am trying to find something similar or even a men's fit.

Dale…that Cabela's might be what I am looking for. Has anyone ever used the one made by LL Bean?

Loads of companies have come out with similar Power Dry HE recently. However, most/all use a heavier version. 129 g/meter for Cap 4 is darn light.

I have not tried the expedition weight base layer from Bean, but I have had their lighter weight Power Dry. I would say that their quality is fully comparable to the high end branded products. Fit on their stuff is almost always a little looser/bigger than from Marmot, etc.

I don't think that their expedition weight baselayer is exactly the same fabric as the current Cap 4, but rather a similar variant. Hard to tell for sure without actually seeing it. In any case, I'm sure it's high quality stuff. I don't think that one version of Power Dry has miracle magic potion properties that a slightly different flavor of Power Dry lacks.

Donna asked, "Has anyone ever used the one made by LL Bean?"

I looked and saw a bunch of Power Dry tops. Keep in mind the Power Dry comes in several weights and weave patterns. I'm taking some liberty in comparing them to the Cap 4, which to me looks like heavier weight R1/Power Dry gridded fleece with alternate rows of fleece removed. The mid-weight Power Dry materials are more on the base layer side of things as opposed to a middle layer, with smaller, thinner cells in the grid. There seems to be some inconsistency between vendors on naming which fabric what weight: "heavy," "medium," or "expedition" may all have some local interpretation. If you can't get a hands-on look, go for a liberal return policy! I wish you could get fabric swatches.

I have been using merino wool ( Icebreaker Body Fit 260) and while it is nice, it is so heavy to carry. That with a houdini type windshirt over it keeps me warm enough when I am hiking/backpacking…almost too hot, unless it's sleeting/snowing and a good wind. Yes, I get chilled when I stop, but while I am working it is a perfect combo. I'm looking for something lighter in weight, just as functional. It weighs 10.7 oz. It's one piece of gear that just works for me.

del

>> There seems to be some inconsistency between vendors on naming which fabric what weight: "heavy," "medium," or "expedition" may all have some local interpretation.

You aren't kidding. I wish the manufactures would all post close up photos of both sides of the fabric so you could see what the heck it is.

LLBEAN describes their expedition weight base layer as a "gridded fabric" which suggests one of the Power Dry versions that has a distinct raised texture. This could be like the current Cap 4 or or it could be one of the versions with more smaller raised tufts in the gridded portion. And, who's to say if it even matters or if the difference is just marketing gobbledy gook.

The other problem is that they companies change the materials and designations seemingly every year. So this years Cap 4 is not the same as Cap 4 from two years ago, which is not the same as Cap 4 from a couple years before that — highlighting that this is, after all, primarily a fashion industry, notwithstanding the fine patina of technology used to pitch the products….

"LLBEAN describes their expedition weight base layer as a "gridded fabric" which suggests one of the Power Dry versions that has a distinct raised texture. This could be like the current Cap 4 or or it could be one of the versions with more smaller raised tufts in the gridded portion. And, who's to say if it even matters or if the difference is just marketing gobbledy gook."

"Gridded" can have lots of leeway and to my knowledge, all the Power Dry weights are gridded. An REI "midweight" Power Dry crew neck long sleeve base layer shirt weighing 8oz has a definite grid pattern:

This is an REI Power Dry top described as heavyweight and an XL 1/4 zip long sleeve top weighs 11oz.

And an R1 closeup just for reference:

These shirts all have various age, wear, laundering to add to the fray.

As far as manufacturer's using the same product names for garments using different fabrics, we can start with the Houdini and go on from there. I assume they all want to ride on the positive reputation of the previous models. The Ford "Mustang II" comes to nightmare-ish mind :)

When trying to compare base layer tees, the fabric and finish changes are so unpredictable that it makes a meaningful comparison of brands and models almost impossible.

@Rick…I think the entire cut of the top is just not right. I have noticed that Patagonia for women is going very curvy and tight. I think it's becoming geared for someone with a model's build. I have some capilene base layers that are 20 yrs old and still fit, same size.

@Dale…even with what you have shown ( awesome, btw) have these layers performed the same for you? By that I mean mid performs as it should and the heavier expedition for colder climates. Melanzana has the grid fleece but may be too lightweight.

These things are so confusing.

I have five different Power Dry fabrics from Marmot and LLBEAN. They are all different. Only one is gridded a narrow rectangular grid pattern on what was called a "midweight", but probably approaches heavyweight.

The others are various combinations of loose woven on the inside and outside, loose woven inside and smooth outside, and smooth on the outside. There is no consistency of how it is labeled in terms of lightweight, midweight, etc.

I think the only common characteristic of "power dry" fabrics is that they are woven with two different fibers/layers — "something" to optimize wicking on the inside and "something" to optimize drying on the outside.

Donna asked, "@Dale…even with what you have shown ( awesome, btw) have these layers performed the same for you? Melanzana has the grid fleece but may be too lightweight."

No, they are different weights and the warmth and breathability varies as you might expect. For mid layer garments, I would consider the Cap4 and R1 and throw Power Stretch in there too. Cap4 is lighter more breathable and not quite as warm.

It depends on what you are after. I look at this class of garments (Cap4/R1) as mid-layers to be used with a base layer and wind or rain shell. You can certainly wear them all without a base layer if your base layer is wet or dirty. They are soft and comfortable against the skin. Wear them as you would a sweater.

The first two items I showed photos of are something I consider as cold weather base layers. I think Cap 3 is on the light side of the same class of layers. It's really just a matter of the weave with different wicking and breathability.

My technique is to pick a base layer to suit the general temperature, where I would be comfortable working hard walking uphill with a load and dialing that in with a wind shell if I need protection from wind and light precipitation– if I'm a little chilly. I can add the fleecy mid layer (Cap4/R1/Power Stretch) for cold with light activity or cool rest stops. This is all great stuff for cold/cold wet weather. The puffy layers get added for camp and colder weather.

For example: our last hike was on a light downhill slope at 40F. I wore the midweight base layer with light gloves and cap, an R1 vest and a windshirt and carrying 10lbs in a day pack. I took off the vest for the uphill return leg and adjusted the windshirt zipper as needed. If I was still too warm, I could take the hat off.

At some point you just have to dive in an try some of this stuff. What works for my and my metabolism and the local climate may be a mess for you. IMHO, you can't have enough fleece options— and my gear closet shows it :)

If you are on a budget, there are lots of 100w/200w fleece tops at much lower cost. Once you know how to layer, the real differences in all this stuff is small. UL gear is really performance based and these long-winded discussions can really be about single digit percentages. if you are in a large city, hit the thrift stores: fleece is plentiful and cheap.

"I think the only common characteristic of "power dry" fabrics is that they are woven with two different fibers/layers — "something" to optimize wicking on the inside and "something" to optimize drying on the outside."

You know, I think Cap3 is a Power Dry variant if IIRC. I see what you mean. My point was there are LOTS of grids too and ergo my wish for some fabric swatches. The differences between the Patagonia Cap1/2/3 are small and the Capilene label has been stamped on all kinds of stuff over the years. "Love the one your with!"

>> At some point you just have to dive in an try some of this stuff. What works for my and my metabolism and the local climate may be a mess for you. IMHO, you can't have enough fleece options— and my gear closet shows it :)<<

Not in small part because it's so easy to live in various fleece tops nearly 24/7 in the winter. It's so much easier to wash a Power Stretch fleece pullover than a cotton or wool sweater. That means some are being worn day to day, some are in the backpack, and some are in the wash.

And, don't even get me started on how comfy it is to lie on the sofa watching football in power stretch pants and hoody. Need to go in and out shovelling snow? Pop on a pair of rain pants and you're good to go…

Donna,

I'm usually a women's large and a men's medium. The men's medium cap 4 hoody actually is a very nice fit for me…which is odd because usually if a garment is "slim fit" the men's version doesn't fit me very well. I only even tried the mens because I read a review from a woman who said the same thing as you: the women's fit oddly…

I end up buying and wearing so many men's clothes for running and hiking I don't even think about it anymore.