Down Sleeping Bag for summer hiking in European Alps advice

In the mountains I would count on night temperatures of 0-5 degrees Celcius. It may be warmer, but you want to prepare for the coldest night you can expect. I recommend you take a look at Cumulus, a Polish brand with very good price-quality. You may have seen it already, but at http://www.hiking-site.nl/prikbord/forumdisplay.php?f=7 a lot of people have ordered sleeping bags from Cumulus together at a discount. I think they're currently in the 3rd or 4th round of ordering sleeping bags. You may still be able to join them. Also, keep an eye out for second hand sleeping bags on marktplaats. You may have to wait a while, but eventually something great will come along for a very good price.

John,

I have backpacked in the mountains in Italy, France, Spain, etc, and I agree with Mark that the nighttime temp can easily dip to 0-5 C during the summer months.

Have you considered using a double quilt? Two bodies under one "summer" quilt is warmer than sleeping in separate summer bags/quilts. And the double quilt is lighter and less expensive, depending on make and model. Some couples always prefer this option and like it. Others don't. I think it's fine for short trips. You have to consider how close you want to be, whether or not you are both "cold" or "warm" sleepers, etc.

Another option: Some sleeping bags can be joined (zipped) together with another bag. Then you have the choice to sleep separately or together in a double bag if temps drop. Just make sure the bags you choose will work this way and that you order matching zippers (Left and Right).

I would also highly recommend bringing a puffy jacket (I prefer synthetic for various reasons) that can be used as part of your sleep system too.

Happy trails!

Maybe you can also take a look here: http://www.hiking.be/?373

That Deuter-sleeping bag is no longer being offered apparantly, but there's also a 300. Normally it's more then 200 € but sometimes can be found cheaper e.g. http://www.bergfreunde.de/deuter-trek-lite-300-daunenschlafsack/

I will definately be looking at that Cumulus buy action at hiking-site, thanks for that.

My gf and I are close sleepers and dont mind spooning at night (although a bit of extra room is always nice, we are both side sleepers) so I would definately be interested in a 2 person quilt, I have yet to come across one that is within my budget, any recommendations?

Just a few options for two-person quilt:

Buy materials from thru-hiker.com

or

http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/OrderForm.php

or

check prices with all the excellent cottage industry quilt makers

or

consult with the Make Your Own Gear (MYOG) section of this site

Or contact Marco from As Tucas: http://astucas.com/en/about/contact

Yes, I forgot about As Tucas. Good suggestion.

I've sent him a message :) As for the other links, I will look into it but I'm not sure if I want to make my own quilt. I notice some of the offers include synthetic insulation, how do they compare weightwise and in compressability?

I agree with others: you can occasionally get frost in the mountains, even in summer.
Two bags zipped together are both warm and roomy.
Alpkit sell good value down bags, eg Pipedream 400 is ideal for late spring thru early autumn, but they are currently out of stock while they find a new supplier, worth checking nearer the time of your trip.

John,

after a cloudless night in the Alps you can expect sub freezing temps in any month of the year, so maybe you want to be prepared. Before you both spend your money twice maybe take your time and educate yourself: http://www.mammut.ch/images/Mammut_Sleep_well_pt1_E.pdf – will answer lotsa questions (even the ones you have not even known about yet).

Living in Europe there are lots of good sleeing bags to choose from so no need for buying them overseas (and you won't have to pay 12% customs). Finding down quilts is a bit more complicated.

Maybe have a look at the EXPED DreamWalker 450 and 650 bags (http://www.exped.com/germany/en/product-category/sleeping-bags?f%5B0%5D=field_sleepingbag_line%3A501)? Not too heavy, no need to carry additional insulating garments and if spooning is desired also useable as a double quilt (especially size L). As MTB legend Keith Bontrager put it: "Strong. Light. Cheap. Pick Two." (If their sizing was OK for me a Dreamwalker would already be sitting in my gear closet).

Cheers,
Steffen

Look at Campmoor's catalog and see if they have inexpensive down mummy bags with left and right side zippers. These type of bags can be opened, laid flat and mated into one big bag. Call Campmoor to ask them about this. Next would be LL Bean for reasonable prices.

For a tent I'd look at Tarptent's stratospire 2 (IF one of you carries hiking poles).
It's light and roomy with two good vestibules.

Have a look at
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/caffins_4_month_gear_list.html
and
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/caffin_gear_list_revisited.html

These were for the GR10 across the Pyrenees.

I will endorse the idea of two light quilts which can be layered if it gets really cold. We have done that down to -7 C successfully. Yeah, we were snuggled up together as well.

Cheers
PS: don't forget the Refuges around Triglav – they are quite nice too.

"For a tent I'd look at Tarptent's stratospire 2 (IF one of you carries hiking poles).
It's light and roomy with two good vestibules."

+1

Great advice Eric, love mine!

Cheers,
Steffen

We will certainly be sleeping in the refuges around triglav, since it is also not allowed to camp in Triglav National Park. (Do you know if there are also 2 person rooms for some summer romance with the misses or are it just sleeping rooms?)

I'm now looking at the Zpacks Twin Quilt 30F, I've had contact with Joe and we can manage a way to make sure I wont have to pay up to 30% extra in custom duties. That would actually put this 2p quilt just slightly above budget, but at the weight of around 660gram it's a amazing weight saver. I've also looked at the Cumulus Comforter XL 700. This one is somewhat cheaper (Around 80 to 90 euros) and within my budget, however it's also slight heavier (but still lighter then 2x mummy bags). Does anyone have experience with Comforters, I wonder what the downside is of this kind of sleeping system compared to the zpacks quilt. Here is a link to this comforter aswell: http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/index.php?mnu=144&app=catalog_viewer&did=146&vid=1&gid=54 (They have free shipping this month to the EU which is a nice saving aswell.

Also will be reading the mammut pdf today for more info, thanks for that.

Hi John

Um – just a thought. Are you planning on using Huts all the time? Cause if so, you don't need a quilt at all. They provide really nice blankets. You just need a liner each – that is compulsory.

Two person rooms – some more modern huts DO have them, but not so much the older ones. However, all is not lost. In many cases a room will have (say) 4 beds, but if the hut is not full you can still get sole use of the room. The Guardians do try to spread everyone out, with special considerations for couples.

Cheers

Hi John,
I am from Slovenia. If you need any info please feel free to contact me via
PM. As mentioned above temp. can dip to 0C even in Avgust. Huts yes but there is nothing much but just roof over head and bad food (not in all places) for lots of money:)

Cheers!

"Or contact Marco from As Tucas: http://astucas.com/en/about/contact"

I have ordered a hoody from As Tucas, was bit too small and he send me a larger size from Europe to Japan at no extra charge.
He was very helpful in answering questions I had and he does custom gear too. All for very reasonable prices I feel.

I'm sure he knows a bit about European mountains too, so he might be able to advice you with regards to his kit, and if you need overfill or size adjustments or whatever.

Roger,

We will definitely be trying to sleep in our tent most of the time and not in huts, the huts are more of a backup plan for when the weather is really bad and we want a proper roof above our head for a night. So we will be looking at a quilt, the cumulus comforter/quilt is really affordable but is heavier (I suppose due to it's rectangular shape), I wonder if there would be other differences, I think it should be more then big enough being more then 2x2m.

Thanks Velimir, I will keep that in mind and when I do get questions I will certainly ask away. I've been to Slovenia last year (without the misses) but was just base camping at Lake Bohinj with only a few short hikes and visiting all kinda places across Slovenia with a friend who lives in Kamnik. I'm awaiting the arrival of the topo map of Slovenia with the Via Alpina trails on it to get a more detailed idea of the walking route and to see how easy it is to include excursions on the way to places like the Škocjan Caves, Lipica, Lake Bled, Predjama Castle, etc… From what I can see on the Via Alpina site the route pretty much runs you right through these places. I also ordered Brandon Wilson's book of his experience on the Red Trail.

Ito: I messaged As Tucas and his price for a 2 person quilt is quite a bit higher then both the Zpacks and Cumulus offers. Since I'm looking at a lot of gear to buy I will probably decide on a cheaper alternative.

Some people gave tent advice, at first I was looking at the tarptent's but with import duties included they are kinda expensive, I decided on the Backpacker's editors choice of 2012: L.L. Bean Microlight FS-2 which is very light for it's price range beating anything else. LLB now has last years model listed for 199$ which is really doable, even with import duties included this will result in a price of 218euro all in (shipping, import, vat, etc). Free standing (we dont need trekking poles and dont plan on bringing those), 2 vestibules and doors helped make the decision for this tent.

I have always been under the impression that in Europe a distinction is made between camping and bivying. In some areas where camping is prohibited, bivying is okay. In other words, it's not okay to set up a camp for a couple of days in those areas; however, it is okay to "bivy" for the night while travelling through the mountains. Also, many huts/refuges permit camping near but not next to the hut/refuge. I am not sure how it works in Slovenia, though, as I have never been there—yet. Perhaps Velimir would comment?

euh, sometimes even bivying is not allowed. And sometimes they're very strict about it and if you get caught, you get a fine or your gear is confiscated.

So are they in Slovenia about that ?

"I messaged As Tucas and his price for a 2 person quilt is quite a bit higher then both the Zpacks and Cumulus offers. Since I'm looking at a lot of gear to buy I will probably decide on a cheaper alternativ"

Well that is nice to hear too. No experience with Cumulus myself but I have some small stuff from ZPacks and it's been great, as was the service. I'm sure you can get quality stuff there.

Looked at Katabatic for your quilt? Also a good option. Not sure about pricing but check it out.

Hi,

@John no worries. Happy to hear you have friends from here.

"PS: don't forget the Refuges around Triglav – they are quite nice too."
If you plan to get into Triglav national park at high season (summer European vacations July-September) I would recommend you to book double room well in advance as at peak season huts are overcrowded. As for sleeping bag light down/synthetic will work. You might find quilt better option as it can get realy warm/humid and venting is nice:)..

@Michael..I believe with LNT and staying away from the main routes you can do both.I wouldn't set camp for a few days and do peak bagging in National park except in dedicated camps (which are down in the valley) but with silent stealth overnight being it bivy or tarp/tent you are fine.

"however, it is okay to "bivy" for the night while travelling through the mountains" +1

@Woubeir…"So are they in Slovenia about that?" You can get fined yes but gear confiscated no…it's yours and you need to get safe off the mountain.

Cheers

Hi John,

What did you end up choosing for your sleep/shelter option for your European Alps trip, and how did they work for you? I am looking at planning a similar trip myself…