When will cuben fiber become reasonably affordable.

@Ben: The reason large companies wouldn't use it is because if f@cking sucks for general use due to how fragile it is and it is a manufacturers nightmare in terms of durability / warranty claims. It is very much a niche product. The general public doesn't generally care about weight, they want the bomproof materials (ripstop nylons, corduras, etc.) that they get today and will last a long time and manufacturers want products that can stand the daily abuse people give them without having to be babied….

Cuben products in the general public's hands would have a very, very short life, a ridiculously high return rate / warranty claim rate and would quickly earn cuben the reputation of being the worst material ever introduced into mainstream backpacks and tents.

If they improved cuben's strength, who knows, maybe it could work. All I know is that if I'm rock climbing or going to be scraping granite or branches, checking a backpack on an airplane, etc., cuben's staying at home.

del

I don't own anything cuben, but my understanding is it is quite strong for its weight (which is why it is popular). Nobody is going to mass produce 0.51 oz stuff, but I still see no reason why heavier weight cuben wouldn't work in the mass market and still be lighter than what it would compete against. Perhaps it is manufacturing difficulties. I think it is condescending to suggest the mass market doesn't care much about weight. It may not be the equipment you would choose, but everyone selling backpacking equipment talks about weight. It is an important factor for everyone who backpacks (durability and quality may rank higher for some, but weight is still an important factor.)

Lightweight Cuben, like 0.7 oz/yd2 is fragile

Heavier Cuben is much stronger

Seems like a pack doesn't use very large area of fabric so it's not that important to use the strongest for the weight fabric

… I think one issue that was brought up is that for cuben to be mainstream it needs to be in gear that last for more than one season.

Adding the extra bulk might put it on par with the weight of silnylon.

I do have to admit that it kind of sucks to have to get a new backpack/tarp every year when they're very expensive because of the cuben.

In fact, thinking about it this way, cuben is probably more like 6x or so the price of silnylon when you factor in that you have to keep replacing it where a silnylon tarp can last forever if you take care of it.

but, people have said they use Cuben tarp for thru hike and it still has life left in it

that would be a lifetime of use for most people

"I do have to admit that it kind of sucks to have to get a new backpack/tarp every year when they're very expensive because of the cuben.

In fact, thinking about it this way, cuben is probably more like 6x or so the price of silnylon when you factor in that you have to keep replacing it where a silnylon tarp can last forever if you take care of it."

Then stop using cuben fiber gear?

"Lightweight Cuben, like 0.7 oz/yd2 is fragile

Heavier Cuben is much stronger"

I find the 0.74 cuben is not fragile at all. A few items that I have made from it seem slightly thick and plenty durable.

I think that once you dip down into the 0.33 cuben, you will be skating on thin ice. It seems adequate for sleeping bag down baffles, micro-stuff sacks, and that's about all.

–B.G.–

is 0.5 oz Cuben for tarp okay? like CT1K.08

is that what people are using successfully for a thru hike?

@Ben: That's the point, you've never used cuben, your thinking would be different if you had firsthand experience with it. My first time using a cuben pack with the Zpacks 2.92 hybrid material my pot shifted, rubbed against the suspension and rubbed a hole in the pack. That type of shit doesn't fly with general consumer products, cuben products are a highly niche product that work great for their intended purpose with users that are aware of their limitations. Cuben in the mass market in its current form would be a horrific failure, even if cost wasn't a barrier to entry for consumers.

It'll be affordable a season or two after the time that someone comes out with something even lighter and more expensive.

Get out while you can. I quit after silnylon.

"I do have to admit that it kind of sucks to have to get a new backpack/tarp every year when they're very expensive because of the cuben."

Durability is an issue with any gear and I assume that is a factor with UL gear. There ARE compromises. I wouldn't call silnylon rugged by any means!

BUT, some folk are really hard on gear. With reasonable care, I have no problem getting my UL stuff to last. There's no excuse for a tarp to fall apart unless you use it extreme conditions: a properly pitched shelter should hold up in moderate wind at any rate. I'm careful when setting down my pack and I don't drag it around. I clean and dry my gear when I get home and store it in a clean dry space.

Stuff happens, but I've seen really filthy trashed gear of all kinds. I don't get it!

Cuben is a niche for people who want the lightest.

It's amazing that we can get a tent made from .51oz vs 1.1+oz material.

That's more than half as much weight. The trend is backpacking is lighter gear cost more $$$. When you figure out the amount of ounces saved vs added cost for fancy materials you might actually find that cuben can be a bargain.

As far as price going down, like someone else said it won't be until something new comes out.

It will likey be lighter without compromising strength and waterproofness. I'm not even sure it'd going to be possible. Any ideas?

"When will cuben fiber become reasonably affordable"

I guess I don't understand the question. I think cuben is reasonably affordable.

I've heard through some reasonably salient sources that you can expect that cuben fibre will be priced more reasonably by this Friday. Next Monday at the latest.

Hi James,

I think one of the reasons why Cuben is somewhat expensive to make, is because they have to plasma treat the UHMWPE fibers to properly bond them to the films they use, of which mylar/polyester seems to be the most commonly used–probably because of price and excellent UV resistance. These fibers are so innately slippery, they are hard to bond otherwise.

Plasma treatments don't strike me as a low cost process, but i may be wrong.

What would be interesting, is if they used a combination of UHMWPE film with UHMWPE fibers–might be able to forgo the plasma treatment and do a more simple, and common calendering type process. I've heard that UHMWPE fibers do lose some strength when overly heated (because of orientation of molecular chains can change and become less ordered), but i think there may be a sweet spot with just a little heat, and a good amount of pressure.

Boy do i wish i had the equipment to test this hypothesis out.