JMT Permit Process

It's frustrating. Calling in and reserving a permit during the summer usually involves dialing the wilderness permit center 15-20 times before you get past the busy signal. Of course their system could be better, but the core of the problem is many people fighting for few permits.

15-20 times?

I'm at 47 just today. 48

I believe you can mail them in up to two weeks before the first day you can make a reservation (6 months and 14 days), and they are supposed to go in the same (and preferred) pool of permit application.

Anyway, I am shocked, shocked I say, to find delays and busy signals part of a government office!

It's called government employee job security.

Sure they could subcontract out to an IT company to put it on the web… like Inyo National Forest does…

but then some of those government employees would lose their jobs…

and the park service would have to reduce their budget and get less money from the Treasury…

Billy

Yosemite is a breeze compared to Grand Canyon. At least as it applies to the North-south rim corridor.

I dont blame them, the permits are actually handled by the Yosemite Conservancy, a non-profit if I recall correctly. I have had mine go thru several times on first try at 3am pacific time. Still didnt get permit though. I had to call and then had one offered.

They get hundreds of applications per day, for the same few spots. Call and ask is the easiest thing. Someone can cancel a reservation and make it available, and no one knows until you call and ask.

Mono Meadow should be easy to get though, and the GP tour bus is supposed to be able to stop there if you ask the driver to.

They could subcontract out to IT company

They would charge a fee

People would complain about the fee : )

But yeah, they should use modern online process, I can see how people are frustrated

If they had an open online system, like INYO, it would be overwhelmed in the seconds that the permit process was open. The first 50 lucky people would get permits, and no one else would. Someone would come up with sniping programs just like on ebay to maximize thier chances.

With the lottery approach, at least everyone has a chance.

Now, if you could register for the lottery online that would be good. Then IF you were selected and WHILE it was YOUR turn to pick, you had a longer list of options, say 8 different ones, it would be even better.

One thing the manual process does, is by requiring a campsite indication for the first night, the person assigning the permit can tell somewhat if the person sending it in has a clue to what they are doing. Some people likely dont have a clue about the camping restrictions, and they automatically disqualify them on the basis of stupidity.

Given the issues surrounding it, its not that bad. You CAN get something if you show up in person. You MOST LIKELY will get any of several permits within a couple of days of trying, as long as they dont Start with HI or end in LYV.

"The fax number was so busy the last two days I couldn't even get a fax through between 6:30am and 7:30am. I suppose I could wake up and try to send the fax in the middle of the night from that one fax machine place that is open at midnight …"

Or you could use one of the many online fax providers to send your fax automatically in the middle of the night. It's 2014. Who goes to some place at midnight to use a fax machine?

"Anyway, I am shocked, shocked I say, to find delays and busy signals part of a government office!"

Yes! Because I've never, ever …… EVER had delays or busy signals calling a civilian business! Nope, not customer support at my bank or my phone/cell company or my electric company to report an outage or my internet company to change my plan or ….. well, you get the idea…..

"It's called government employee job security."

Or it's called wanton misallocation of federal tax dollars resulting in the failure to properly staff a busy agency.

Well, the online campsite reservation system for Yosemite completely fills up within minutes of opening. Once a month, on the 15th, the entire month's worth of campsite reservations is filled pretty much immediately.

So not sure that's a better way…….the lottery may not be great, but I honestly don't know what the better way is.

The current Yosemite permitting system definitely needs to step into the electronic era, and out of its antiquated phone and fax system. I understand that it is run by the Yosemite Conservancy, and puts earned funds back into Yosemite, but the same results can be achieved with an electronic model similar to Rec.Gov. Even if they had to implement mini-lotteries for the busy days and notified people of a successful or unsuccessful draw, it would beat the system that is in place now! The window for obtaining your permit is 168 days in advance, and you better be on your game to get your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd choice TH choices in as well! The other issue I have is the very limited number of Happy Ilses Sunrise/Merced Pass Through permits that are reservable, a whopping 6 a day. I realize that they want to preserve the wilderness from overuse, but 6 a day for a trip that most will spend 168 days in preparing for their trip in terms of planning for time off, transportation, food, resupplies, ect. seems a bit on the low side, while HI-LYV has 18 reservable spots per day, but if you are looking for solitude, may not be a great choice.

I am thrilled to report that after trying to call them 76 times, I finally got through on attempt 77 and landed a permit for 2 starting a GP. I didn't get the exact start date I wanted, nor the location, but I'll live.

Calling is the way to go, provided you don't get discouraged after 70 busy signals.

Yeah, parks (and forest) service is waayyyyyy underfunded, as evidenced by the fact that a non-profit has to manage the permit process.

"Well, the online campsite reservation system for Yosemite completely fills up within minutes of opening. Once a month, on the 15th, the entire month's worth of campsite reservations is filled pretty much immediately."

The prime indication as to why I DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE !

Let Yosemite rest in peace. We had done killed the wildness of it… let it rest in peace… just say no.

billy

" I realize that they want to preserve the wilderness from overuse, but 6 a day for a trip that most will spend 168 days in preparing for their trip in terms of planning for time off, transportation, food, resupplies, ect. seems a bit on the low side, while HI-LYV has 18 reservable spots per day, but if you are looking for solitude, may not be a great choice."

Well, the limited number of permits limits impact, and works toward maintaining the wilderness aspect of it.

You can get HI-LYV as well, but are in high competition with dayhikers to climb half dome.

Your are not required to camp at LYV with that permit. You can go past that point the same as the pass-thru.

Yosemite needs to get rid of the half dome cables, that would solve a lot of issues. It is supposed to be wilderness that is protected. It has been forever scarred. The wear on the rock face will be there for thousands of years, the holes drilled for posts will never go away.

On top of that, people die frequently enough, that it should be removed, or require you to wear a harness and clip to the cables. If you had to climb that for work, that is exactly what one would do.

I personally believe the halfdome cables will not be there in another 25 yrs.

"I personally believe the halfdome cables will not be there in another 25 yrs."

Judging from the past attempts of Yosemite to remove improvements, I'd say it is more likely there will be an escalator in 25 years… :(

Billy

"Your are not required to camp at LYV with that permit. You can go past that point the same as the pass-thru."

From the Yosemite Website, and also what I have been told by rangers:
"If you have a wilderness permit for Happy Isles to Little Yosemite Valley or Glacier Point to Little Yosemite Valley, you must camp in Little Yosemite Valley campground on the first night (and subsequent nights) of your hike. If you have a permit for another trailhead, you will have to camp elsewhere your first night, but you can stay in Little Yosemite Valley on subsequent nights. If you have a permit for Happy Isles to Merced Lake or Glacier Point to Illilouette, you can not camp in the Little Yosemite Valley area on the first night of your hike."

So, no, you are not supposed to camp beyond LYV with the HI to LYV, or GP to LYV permit. My point was, that there should be more reservable JMT thru-hike permits available due to the planning involved, even at the expense of LYV and walk-up permits, and other less-attractive JMT starting points. I think 6 is way to low for the number of people thru-hiking this trail. I don't think if should be a lot higher, but if you lowered the available spots from the 'back door' JMT options and put them where the need is, the OVERALL impact to the wilderness would be the same. The same people putting in for Glacier Point, Mono Meadows, or the Illiouette Falls detour all end up on the same trail within 3.5 miles of Happy Isles anyways, so let's be realistic and reasonable about it. The section of the JMT to the top of Nevada Falls, where all of the 'back door options' become one and the same JMT, is a freeway of people now anyways, most of them day hikers.

Ranger specifically told me you could go past LYV on a LYV permit, and camp near Halfdome junction. I thought you had to camp at LYV too.

These permits are mostly intended for people climbing halfdome.

Robert can you clarify if the part in parenthesis (and subsequent nights) is directly quoted from the Yosemite NP website?

"If you have a wilderness permit for Happy Isles to Little Yosemite Valley or Glacier Point to Little Yosemite Valley, you must camp in Little Yosemite Valley campground on the first night (and subsequent nights) of your hike."

If this is the case, then it has some big implications for the JMT permitting process. It would mean that you need to get one of the only 6 reservable passthru permits to hike the JMT. The LYV permit would be no good as you would have to spend subsequent night at LYV rather than continuing with your next 200 miles towards Whitney.

I'm not suggesting anything by this …

but last summer I spent 5 days on the JMT and did not see a single ranger or other federal employee for a 125 miles.

and then on a second trip, which included going up Whitney, I did not see a single ranger for 2 days over 45 miles.

Art,

Although you are not suggesting anything … I thought I add my own observations from the last 4 years. During 4 JMTs and 1 SHR (where it overlaps with the JMT) I have been checked every time for permits — and sometimes even for my bear canister.
In three cases the ranger had positioned himself at an intersection and checked everyone coming by. The intersections were
1) In Lyell Canyon near Ireland Creek right where hikers taking the Rafferty Creek TH join the JMT
2) In LeConte Canyon right where the Bishop Pass Trail meets the JMT
3) Charlotte Lake/Kearsage Pass intersection

The other two checks were done by roaming rangers in random places along the trail. In addition I met three times rangers in the Whitney Zone, who exchanged a couple of friendly words asking whether I'm doing the JMT, without actually asking to see the permit.

Best Regards,

Manfred

I've always gotten a permit for overnight trips in the Sierra.
just felt like I wasn't getting my money's worth last summer.

Robert’s quote of Yosemite’s website “…If you have a wilderness permit for Happy Isles to Little Yosemite Valley or Glacier Point to Little Yosemite Valley, you must camp in Little Yosemite Valley campground on the first night (and subsequent nights) of your hike” can be found here; however my interpretation is that such statement applies to people only climbing half dome since it’s under the section labeled “Camping on the way to Half Dome”.

I got my 2014 JMT permit application accepted a few days ago, and the option I was granted was entering at “Happy Isles to Little Yosemite Valley” TH and ending at Whitney Portal TH, so clearly they do not expect me to camp at LYV campground every night of my trip.

I think you are right about that paragraph being intended for Half-Dome hikers, not JMT through hikers. I have got the Happy Isles to LYV, JMT, Whitney Portal Exit permit and was told that year that I was required to stay my 1st night at LYV. Hopefully they have changed that requirement! I think there is a lot to be interpreted by rangers in terms of many of Yosemite's hiking permit regs.
Nothing about whether one has to stay in LYV, or not, changes my thinking on their permitting process though… It needs an update!