Cat tarp or flat?

One more cat cut option
http://www.yamamountaingear.com/cirriform-tarp/
Gen is awesome to work with and if you wanted a shorter vision i bet he would custom make you something.

I love my cuben version, it has never let me down. One thing to consider is that is you are only going to use it in bad weather the Cirraform has berks on both ends and the front beak has a waterproof zipper for ease of entry

I also have been learning a lot about flat tarps and have been playing with an 8×10 from Zpacks. It is HUGE when set up

Just to add another thought, maybe something like a solo mid so that you would have the ease of set up that a cat cut tarp and have a lot of usable space to move around if the weather has you pinned down?

Jeff

i have used both

had an oware cat tarp and have had 8×10 and 5×7 flat tarps

my expierience with them is this

cat tarps seem to pitch tight easier than flat tarps flat tarps seem to give the user more choices in pitch options depending on size of tarp weather conditions
and so on

after lots of testing of different sizes and cuts of tarps i have found
a 7×9 flat silnylon tarp is the best fit for my needs i mostly pitch it in a frame configuration and sleep in a borah gear bivy under it great combo for the sierras
what i like about the 7×9 is it has enough room under it that if i were to get cought in bad weather i can hunker down under it and still have room for all my gear
and cook meals under it without any problem i have been in a rainstorm under my
cat tarp 1.1 and stayed dry but had little to no extra room under it i managed to ride out the storm without any wet gear so it will keep you dry but you will feel very cramped very fast and have no room to cook or stow any gear under a tarp that small so keep this in mind if looking to smaller tarps i would say 6×9 would be the minimum i would look at but every situation is different and you may find the smaller tarps a better fit for your needs barring the drawbacks of them
thay are great in mild weather but you will probably want something bigger if the
forecast gets dicey just my expierience hope it helps
good luck in your choice
kevin

pyramid, like from MLD or Oware, has all edges close to ground so wind and rain don't get blown onto you

more difficult if you have a raised edge(s)

Thanks Jeff. I've seen those pictures before…did you post them on another thread or site…going to your park to practice/play with them? Anyway, it looks familiar. While you were posting your reply, I was looking thru the forum for other treads about tarps etc and found one…of course…and the mid came up a lot. I've looked at them, but will look again. (oh..I would have posted a reply to your note but there is an add right on top of the links…)

Lots of good info on flat tarps here
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/tarp_camping_inclement_conditions.html#.UuyIMv0Yb0Y

The Cirraform tarp is on the JMT and the flat tarp is on my local park…

The ads are frustrating… Not my ad

J

Thanks Kevin. Your experience is in line with what I have learned…thus my choice to stay with something about 8X10. Less chance of rain splatter (but I will have my bivy) and could close off one end if needed with a space blanket I read.

7.5 oz for $160 is pretty attractive! The Solomid is 15.5 oz @ $185…can't afford the z packs stuff…but the sil flat tarps are reasonable in weight and cost…It looks like I would not need a water resistant bivy with the cirri form or Solomid…but just a light bug bivy (cost and weight savings)…huumm

Ahhhh…just revisited the cirriform site…didn't notice the prices up in the right hand corner (couldn't figure how they could do a cuban so cheap :-0 HA. Still, pretty cool 12oz for $160

If you're interested in mids, maybe it's worth looking at Bearpaw Wilderness Designs' Luna mids. I have no experience but have been really curious about them as an alternative to MLD. Their Luna 2 is 20oz and $185, and more spacious than the MLD solomid and duomid.

I can also highly recommend Borah Gear's 8×10 flat tarp, 11.5oz and $95 (though I think mine came in overspec'd).

Unfortunately, no exp with cat cut tarps but I really do appreciate the different pitches a flat tarp can give me. Getting a flat tarp perfectly tight is a little tricky but it gets easier with practice.

Cat tarps are designed to cover one or two campers. A few provide you with real living area when it rains. Some have skirts, some have floors, some have both. Like a tent, they are usually limited to a single configuration for set ups. The catenary curves are designed to allow tension on the structure to be moved to the fabric body, so they are often tighter pitching than flat tarps.My set-up includes stakes & guy lines and comes in at 14oz. In bug season, a 3oz piece of mesh is used over my head. Usually, nights in the ADK's means few bugs. A net tent is used for around a month or two to keep bugs down in Summer. The modular system lets me add/delete pieces as needed.

A flat tarp is simply roof. Generally in rainy weather that is all you want. Usually, bugs are put off in the rain, so there is no bug protection. My flat tarp is LARGER and capable of sleeping 4 people under it in rainy weather. It can be set up in multiple configurations: Lean-to, Diamond, A-Frame, Wedge are the basic ones. It can also be set up over bushes/trees. Mine is about 9'8 x 9'8. It weighs about 18 ounces. I leave two longer guy-lines attached at all times (loop-to-loop.) I bring 7 stakes but it often requires a couple more, usually sticks I find. I also have internal loops for neting. In the wedge configuration, it is warmer than the cat tarp.

Unlike a tent, tarping is never warm. Tents can and do hold some heat. It never happens under a tarp to any significant degree. Without a fire, they get cold. Good in summer, bad in winter. A smaller enclosed tent is better in winter for this reason, alone. But, if you have a good bag & pad, it doesn't really matter.

I use both. When I am with a partner, I bring the flat tarp. Solo, I use the cat tarp.

Jeff…I went back to your precious posts…and also looked at the cirriform and solomid…If truly trapped by weather, I would need food :-). I know I can sit up in either…and I will only be boiling water..but none the less… Chat I've seen says cooking in the solo mid isn't such a good idea (can't really find where anyone has done that).

I'm still enamored with the flat tarp but remain unsure of myself with learning it well (I do have a few months, so surly I can…

Thoughts on cooking in either the cirriform (which you had said, I believe, that was a bit constricted for long hours in it…but I'm smaller than you…or the solomid…

thanks so much. Oh, by the way, I bought the borahbivy, argon top, full net.

pyramids like the solomid have a high peak, but the walls angle up to zero width at peak. Usable headroom is maybe 75% of peak height.

Keep in mind that I am 6 ft 5… I can not say enough about the Cirraform, but I am starting to really love the opportunities that that flat tarp offers. I do not have any experience in the solo mid but I have the new XL model on order so hopeful i will have some feedback soon.

The Cirraform/Borah combo saved my @$$ one specific night up high in a crazy storm on the JMT, it blew and pissed all night and into the day. Even at my height I was able to sit up, and pack everything away without getting out of the tarp. Keep in mind I had it set up like it is in the pics I posted above, but due to the size and shape I was dry as dry can be. At about 3 AM I had to dig a small trench around the drip line as it was starting to puddle up. I did this from inside with no challenge. This to me would say that a normal sized human could probably do just about anything under there.

I look at it like this, If it is summer, when days are long and the nights are short, the Cirraform is my go to. In winter when nights are 14 hours long I typically have a HMG UltaMid 2 in my bag, so I can host card games LOL and do whatever until it is finally time to go to sleep. On my JMT thru hike I was up and moving around 5-6 and put in 24-32 miles a day, setting up around 9 PM when it was just getting dark.

Again, for a normal person I think it has plenty of room. Thinking back I want to say I set the ft peak 41+ inches above the ground.(not sure but if it would help i can set it up tomorrow and measure, I am a gear whore and get confused at time) Very easy to get in and out with the offset zipper which also allows you to roll back the ft Beak if weather cleans up.

The reality is that yours could be lighter than the weight posted on the web site as Gen, like he made one longer for another guy, can make one shorter and optimized to your length.

Just to really twist your mind around, have you thought about a Zpacks Hexamid tarp? I have a LOng with the extended beek and lots of coverage for the weight as well.

Thanks for the comments. As to the zpack stuff…just a bit out of my budget at this point. Especially when there is the cirriform or solo mid for <$200 (or duo for just over). My husband really starts to twitch when I talk about going with a flat tarp…and I have already admitted to my hesitation (but am really quit sure I can learn it…after all… YOU did :-)

It looks as though the weight will be pretty close between the cirriform (16 oz +/- packed) v.s an 8X10 sil tarp (14 oz before stakes/lines/etc). I've also spent the day looking at the solo/duo mids. The cost difference isn't anything to speak off, and the 9 oz difference doesn't seem like much sitting here in my kitchen…I might feel differently after 100+ miles with it on my back! The price you pay for a "palace"…

So…right now I am quite drawn to the cirriform. I think that after the Super Bowl I'll give the gentleman with the odd name a call/email and see what he has to say. (He's off on holiday now) I'd like for my husband to sleep well while I'm on the JMT.

Thanks again.

I have to agree with what others are implying: If you're going to get a catenary tarp you might as well just get a mid. The big selling point of flat tarps is that they are versatile- you can pitch them many ways- and you lose that with a cat tarp. The mids also lack versatility in pitching, but provide better shelter with less fuss.

Caveat: In the interests of losing ALL credibility I will point out that I've never actually used a catenary tarp…

If I were to make a Sil flat tarp, how big would I have to make it in order to not bother with a bivy?

You should see the youtube video by Critter. At least to see if you think you could set up a shelter as quickly.

Here are a lot of cat cut tarp configurations I put up on another site. I’m not good with pictures on this site yet.
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8005558&amp;

The tarp in both links is a 12 foot Kelty Noah’s Tarp. It is an amazing tarp, now if I can only find it in a lighter material.

Minmum size flat tarp without bivy is probably 7 x 9. Some might say 8 x 10.

I have a Yama Terraform tarp that I use and it sets up tight as a drum, and it is easy to achieve that pitch. It could fit ( 2), but I use it solo and is like a palace under it. I have used it with a tigoat bivy, and I also picked up a 1.25 Yama net tent from a forum member this winter to try during bug season. Weighs about 2-3 oz more than my bivy, but should be much nicer than the Mosquitos that were hovering all over my bivy net last summer.

IMO- Gen at Yama makes a great cat cut tarp- high quality and easy to pitch. I highly recommend his gear from what I have seen so far.

Pics of Terraform: ( ** note- wow, do not know why pics 1 & 3- are smaller than Pic 2. ( These were uploaded from my phone and that may be part of it.)

+1 on the Terraform from Gen at Yama Mountain. His work is top notch. His cuben tarps are great as well, though I wish he made one as big as the Terraforms. I find myself always migrating back to this tarp after using both flat tarps and a variety of mids. The front width of the Terraform keeps me from missing a side entry and I like the airiness of the Terraform when pitched higher and its bomb proof nature in bad weather.

I've used a flat tarp and the cirriform in silnylon. I like the cirriform more than the 8 x 10, right now, because it is so easy to set up, weighs a bit less, and in my experience provides very similar coverage for one and better protection from wind. I've used it on very rainy nights in the Adirondacks and was completely dry. Very little sag compared to the flat tarp and no condensation problems at all.

That said, I have plans to make a pyramid style shelter and it will be very hard to resist the 1person tarp version of Gen's new side-entry shelter, which should be available later this month.

If you post a WTB, you may be able to find one of the Stratiform III's that Yama used to make, which would provide a little more room than the cirriform. There have also been quite a few trailstars on gear swap at around $150, which might be worth considering.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=74498

Here's the thing. On Momdays I'm quite sure I will go with an 8X10 flat tarp. Gold. On Tue, I'm quite sure I will go with a MLD mid (yellow…so lovely I think). Then during the night on Wed. I'm absolutely positive I'll get a Cirriform. ( by the way, Gen did say he could make is shorter for me but that it doesn't make much sense from a cost or weight savings perspective).

At least there are great choices out there!

You said you can't afford Zpacks? The hex solo is only $200 and 4 ounces. Comes with sack and lines too. No zipper to fail and good protection when pitched low.

Ohhh…my aching head! Interesting way they have their site. I just looked at the prices on their main page, never clicked thru. But still…it's $200 without the beak…and 4 oz without groundsheet, lines, stuff sack, stakes (extra cost…as with all tarps/tents) But then its up to a whopping 7.8 oz! horrors..add the beak for another $60 and you're at 9.4 oz. 9×4.5 is plenty of room for me…but in reading reviews I'm not sure that it's what I would want…without the beak…but my backpack sure does want that weight!

I am kinda falling for the MLD mid…so cute in yellow…bomb proof in wind/rain…but its Wed so who knows what Thur will bring? Thanks for the post…just what I need…more late night fodder :-)

Just wanted to let you know that I've really done lots of homework on this and have ordered the MLD SoloXL in YELLOW! I should have tons of room in this beautiful tarp/tent. Watching on the Gear swap I see these tarps hold their value, so much so that I figured I may as well just choose my color and get a new one…so I did!

I will, however, continue to look at the flat tarps, as I am still very drawn to them.

Thanks for all your input. I'm very excited to have the SoloXL on its way to me (well..eventually :-)