Any interest in EtaProof fabric?

I'm a little unclear on the description. Is it cotton to be used for a hot tent setup in the winter? Is yes, than I might be interested but $18 per yard is pretty steep.

What would you make from it?

Thomas – yeah it is 5 oz cotton tight weave fabric (like Ventile). Perfect for a winter hot tent, ventile outerwear etc. I agree it is pretty steep, however unfortunately in this realm options are few and this is one of the cheapest I've found.

David – here's a link from Tentsmiths, they've built a few EC tents over the years. http://tentsmiths.com/egyptian-cotton-tents.html

To quote their website, "At first a 4.5 ounce per square yard seems excessively heavy, twice as heavy in fact as a nylon tent with its 2-3 ounce floor and 2 ounce roof. A waterproof coated nylon floor may be fine but not a coated waterproof roof, so a breathable roof is necessary with the addition of a waterproof coated fly adding more weight. The weights become similar the performance never comes close. While both tents will hold the wind and snow outside, the cotton tent will be a great deal more livable. Cotton is more breathable so in a winter situation it rids itself of moisture faster. Nylon (good nylon) has an industry expected life of six weeks in the sun (longer in winter and northern climates)- a short life for the investment in raw materials. Cotton, if card for, can last many years."

"Nylon (good nylon) has an industry expected life of six weeks in the sun…"

Yes, but most of the day my nylon tent is packed away in my backpack away from the sun. It only gets a couple of hours of sun every backpack day. So… 6 weeks x 7 = 42 days x 24 = 1,008 hours of sun life of nylon tent?

1008 divided by, say, 4 hours of sun per camping day = 252 camping days or 36 weeks

But those 4 hours of sun per camping day are late afternoon/evening hours where the sun is lower in the sky and UV's having to travel through more atmosphere so I would expect you would get even more life out of a nylon tent. Perhaps twice as many hours/days/weeks = 72 weeks?

Also, wouldn't cotton absorb a lot of water… long time to dry?
And… would it be water tight in driving rain?

just wondering…

Billy

Billy,

A cotton tent probably wouldn't be completely watertight in a driving rain unless really heavily coated, but a cotton tent isn't meant for rain. It's a very specific style of tent meant for deep winter with a wood stove inside. I can assure you that there's no risk of rain in Winnipeg, Canada (where I live) from December to March. It's too damn cold! My last trip in December was -33C (-27F) when I stepped out of the car. Winter camping can be excellent though when you've got a hot tent setup.

"My last trip in December was -33C (-27F) when I stepped out of the car."

Burrrrrrr…. we're not in California Toto! :)

Billy

EtaProof is exactly the same as Ventile – the fabric was invented in the UK, and originally produced in the UK but eventually production was shipped overseas to Switzerland and is now produced by EtaProof. The Ventile brand-name still exists, and actually I think the majority of EtaProof's sales is through the ventile brand name in the UK.

They offer a variety of weights, and each has its advantages. Strangely, you tend to find that the thinner the fabric the more water-resistant it is (which is great for you gram counters). Unlike most fabrics, it is completely breathable when dry, but when wet the cotton fibres swell to fill the tiny voids between the warp and weft to make it waterproof – essentially, it reacts to the natural environment.

It's used today for all sorts of applications. The British Antarctic Survey use it for Antarctic tents (it performs incredibly well in snow/cold environments, but it's used by NATO fighter pilots for their flight suits (to protect against cold water if they crash, but the breathability also allows the pressure inside the suit to stabilise during fast ascents / descents). Surgeons use it for their gowns, as the dense weave prevents dirt and bacteria etc passing through. It's has a pretty interesting array of features!

I read a book recently called 'Invisible on Everest' about the history of outdoor gear, and in there climbers in the early 1900's are using similar cottons for UL tents in the alps. Basic, single skin tents, but travelling pretty light considering the time.

I have used it myself to make backpacks, and they perform well. Although ventile does seep water after continuous downpours, I have found it's great for changeable weather and actually dries pretty quickly. While exploring a waterfall, I've dunked a ventile pack fully underwater and it hasn't let any water in at all, but I wouldn't like to have held it down!

One of the downsides of using it is working with the seams. You need pretty specific needles with a very fine point, and it's advisable to use cotton thread (which will expand to fill the puncture holes when wet). Also best to use lap-fell seams, or french seams to cover the edges as obviously it would fray otherwise as its not synthetic.

Also, I know that the Ventile brand will sell certain weights from stock by the meter (I think) – L24 is a good weight to use, so perhaps give them a call?

Sorry for the rant! I'm kinda in love with this fabric and have been researching it a lot recently, having used it to make a backpack and even a yurt cover! I don't mean for this to be advertising – I simply want to share some knowledge with you guys – but if you are interested the backpack is here: http://www.trakke.co.uk/product/og (using L28 ventile)

and the yurt can be seen here: http://www.trakke.co.uk/article/august-19-2013–many-hands-exhibition

Hope that helps! Let me know if you want any more info about the fabric and if I'll help if I can!

Wow Alec, looks like you are doing some incredible things with the fabric! Thanks for the info!

I don't have the first hand experience as Alec, however I've been doing a lot of reading about the egyptian cotton tents of the past century and I'm fairly convinced it would still make a great tent today. These fabrics seem to be very similar performance wise to EC.

As Alec mentioned a dense weave should turn a pretty hard rain (even without any coatings) as the fibers swell to fill the holes, therefore in most climates (baring maybe the PNW) it should perform well in all seasons. One of the main benefits I see is that it is still breathable so you wouldn't need the air gap at the bottom of the shelter (like most single wall nylon shelters) so it would be warmer and a lot less drafty with minimal condensation issues. Another benefit for me is it is made out of natural fibers which I prefer for aesthetic reasons and maybe some environmental reasons as well.

Of course the downsides are it is a little heavier than silnylon, although some weight could be made up by skipping the bivy sack. It will soak up some water (although as Alec said it should dry pretty quickly since it is so light), and of course the $$ factor.

I am by no means an expert, however I do want to get my hands on some of it because I think it would make very livable single wall tent.

Alec – BTW – what is the cheapest way to get a hold of this fabric? Directly through Stotz?

Thanks Adam – it's a great fabric. I'm a little bit obsessed with it at the moment.
Another great benefit is that some types come fireproofed, which is great for winter camping / open fires etc.

In terms of pricing, I deal direct with Ventile in the UK. I'm pretty sure EtaProof sell at pretty much the same price (albeit in Euros). Pretty hard to get hold of anywhere else as it's quite niche. I suppose for small projects you might be able to take apart a ventile jacket off ebay or something, but for bigger projects like tents I would buy from them – I don't know what EtaProofs minimum orders are but ventile sell L24 by the meter I think.

Hope that helps! Would love to see what you do with it if you get some! I've been considering using it to make simple back-systems (as it is breathable) but at the moment I'm concerned that if you sweat, it might become waterproof and therefore useless. Need to do some testing…