Jan 23, 2014 at 5:06 pm #1312382
Back at the Winter 2014 Outdoor Retailer show and I wanted to share with you some of the newest stuff coming out:
Primaloft Gold: An answer to the world's down shortage: 700 fill water-resistant down 'dilluted' with Primaloft fibers. Going to be in a TON of things next year, including Black Diamond's down products
Patagonia Nano Air: STRETCHY NanoPuff with FullRange (Patagonia's proprietary response to Polartec Alpha) insulation. 4 pockets (2 chest, 2 waist). THE PERFECT touring jacket, IMO- with 40 CFM breathability.
Patagonia Down Sweater hoody- new color scheme, one of them is like the Encapsil Parka- new interior pocket, like the Nano Puff- NO LONGER the internal mesh pocket.
Arcteryx Cerium and Thorium SV- Warmer, more durable materials and FINALLY an internal pocket. Retail is $450-500
Arcteryx Ceres Jacket- FULLY BAFFLED, 850 EU fill down, Windstopper outer. THE WARMEST jacket Arcteryx has ever made… retail is $750 though….Jan 23, 2014 at 6:42 pm #2065629
Thanks for the info. Very cool stuff.Jan 23, 2014 at 7:15 pm #2065635
I'll be doing some interviews with designers and product line managers at Arcteryx, Black Diamond, and Beyond (former Beyond Fleece) on their upcoming product line.
I'll also be linking with the Polartec guys to discuss their new Power Wool (think power dry, but merino) textile.
Anything you guys want to me to check out for you?Jan 23, 2014 at 8:08 pm #2065655
Is BD going to make some seriously light down jackets?Jan 23, 2014 at 9:12 pm #2065676
@richard295Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Thank you for the show report!
Does anyone at the show have any test information showing how Primaloft Gold compares to 800 fill Dri Down (or equivalent)?
How does the show's marketing hype, regarding DWR down, compare to prior shows?
Are any of the manufactures providing any new testing information on their DWR downs?Jan 23, 2014 at 9:37 pm #2065680
delJan 23, 2014 at 10:22 pm #2065688
Will the synth degrade before the down?
One of the reasons to buy down is that it resists loft loss due to compression over time
Synth degrades with constant compression …
These down/synth jackets that use both, is te synth guaranteed to have the same lifespan as the down … Or is it a marketing gimmic
If one is paying 400$+ for a jacket, one would hope it will last through many years of use and not have some parts go flat faster than others
And make sure you get how many oz of down fill are in the jacket … Theres no excuse for any company not to give out that basic information … Unless they are afraid of being compared to their competiton
;)Jan 23, 2014 at 10:33 pm #2065689
@mountainwalkerLocale: SF Bay Area & New England
Bobby thank you very much for the report. I hope we hear some more info from BPL staff as well.
1) Like Richard I'd also like to know what's being said about DWR down. It would be nice to know if it actually works and if it lasts.
2) Also love to know how Polartec Alpha compares with Primaloft One in terms of warmth. True Alpha was designed to be used with more breathable shell fabrics, which can mean a less warm jacket, but if you used Alpha in the same shell fabric you used for Primaloft One, would it be just as warm or warmer for the weight?
Alpha is interesting but I typically use fleece + breathable shell to stay warm and dry when on the move in cold conditions, and then throw on the puffy insulation belay layers at rest stops or in camp.
3) New light high quality sleeping bags
4) New lightweight 3 and 4 season shelters, trekking pole and self-supported
5) Any good new low drop trail footwear with cushion + roomy toe box + good traction
6) Higher volume lightweight internal frame packs in the 3600-5000 cu. in. range, especially for winter
And anything that really surprised you, even if it's impracticalJan 23, 2014 at 10:58 pm #2065693
@sgiachettiLocale: Boulder, CO
I'll be interested to see how the polartec power wool stuff works. I find myself going back and forth between polartec high efficiency (MEC T2) and my light wool hoody depending on the activity/conditions. Although come to think of it, I really don't need another option, they're both already THAT good.
Just a comment on the Arc down stuff. I tried to talk myself out of it a few times, but after finding a good deal, I splurged on an arc teryx cerium. Its easily the warmest piece I've found at that weight due to a combination of excellent design, tayloring, and high quality down. I'm not going to try and say that their down products are worth the stupid high prices, but I will say this is the nicest down piece that I've owned, and I bet their warmer stuff will be excellent as well.Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 am #2065701
That new Primaloft stuff, is it definitely a down/synth blend or pure synth because the communication on that from other brands is often confusing ?
BTW, there also Primaloft Silver and Black. All those blends are supposed to differ by the ratio of the blend.
The new Polartec Power Wool is actually a blend of synth on the outside and merino on the inside (comes in different styles e.g. N2S or High Efficiency).
The CLO/oz. for Alpha comes to ± 0,37 according to my calculations and is thus definitely not as warm as P1. Even now, a lot of brands are using it with Pertex Quantum or Microlight although I don't know if these are more AP variants.
And the Arc'teryx down stuff is not pure down, but also uses their Coreloft in some places.Jan 24, 2014 at 6:11 am #2065722
@skomaeLocale: northeastern US
Do you feel that manufacturers are doubling down on Polartec Alpha and other more breathable insulation, or is the hype all about synthetic/down blends?
How is Primaloft Gold, Silver, etc down and synthetic ratios? Are they supplied as loose fill or in sheets like PL1?
Any new stuff on the wp/br front? Are there new Neoshell or Event jackets?
Does Nano Air have a hood? What's estimated MSRP?Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 am #2065728
The ratios I've seen for the Primaloft blends are:
for Gold: 70 % 750 FP down/30 % synth
Silver: 60 (650 FP) /40
Black: 50/50Jan 24, 2014 at 6:44 am #2065732
The question is what happens to the down when the synth goes flat from repeated compression
I assume the synth is short staple to achieve that performance
;)Jan 24, 2014 at 7:16 am #2065746
There appears also to be a Silver High Loft version with continuous filament insulation.Jan 24, 2014 at 9:23 am #2065789
Eric, I think a lot of this is a push towards higher performance at less long term use, like using UL materials that are strong but not bomber. Which basically means it is just slightly more justified marketing spin than the usual.
Either way, I love gear but hate shopping so will continue to focus on durability over minor performance gains that my ever increasing abdominal girth negates.Jan 24, 2014 at 9:56 am #2065797
Dustin, thats an interesting take that i hadnt considered
So basically were paying for marginal performance gains most of us will never use effectively … And paying more for something that wears out faster
Thats positively brilliant marketing !!!
;)Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 am #2065803
just Justin WhitsonMember
I agree with Eric in that mixing synth and down in this way is not a practical or efficient idea.
If you mix down and synthetic in a way wherein one can easily replace the synthetic, then less of an issue. For this to be the case, they need to be separated. One layer of down, one layer of synthetic.Jan 24, 2014 at 1:12 pm #2065844
Bobby, thanks for the report — a thousand doubloons (or at least my great appreciation) for more info on Big Agnes' forthcoming neoshell Shield 2!Jan 24, 2014 at 1:17 pm #2065846
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
It suffers in the wind, just like any other pop-up, and when you open the door in rain the groundsheet fills up.
Some ventilation, so it could be OK in low-land fine weather.
CheersJan 24, 2014 at 5:34 pm #2065914
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
Re: "It suffers in the wind, just like any other pop-up, and when you open the door in rain the groundsheet fills up."
Roger, can you give us your definition of pop-ups. How do you know that all pop-ups suffer in the wind, when there are pop-up designs that probably haven't even been invented yet.
As Mark Twain and Donald Rumsfeld (what a combo) cautioned: How do you know what you don't know you don't know. (Repeat rapidly ten times.)
Would agree that another single-crossed 2 pole + eyebrow strut wedge dome is ho-hum, even if made of a state-of-the-art material.Jan 24, 2014 at 5:39 pm #2065917
@stephen-mLocale: Way up North
I was wondering how long it will be before Neoshell tents turn.Jan 24, 2014 at 5:50 pm #2065919
Yea, 2 different pieces. I mean, I will have more info in the next few weeks.Jan 24, 2014 at 5:51 pm #2065920
Richard, I will be sure to check with the Primaloft people about the 800 dri down.
Dri down seems to be the norm with most manufacturers, except Arcteryx (more on that later).Jan 24, 2014 at 5:52 pm #2065921
One of the designers from BD explained why the fibers on don't 'degrade'- the problem is 'clumping'- which the Gold supposedly doesnt do.Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 pm #2065923
1) DriDown seems to be the norm with most manufacturers, with some notable exceptions.
2) Its my understanding that Alpha is NOT nearly as warm as PL or even Coreloft- but MUCH, MUCH more breathable. There is actually a new, insulation that claims to remedy this.
3) I will check it out- Sierra Designs seems to be doing really neat stuff. Great gear, great price points- EXCELLENT value.
4) Sea to Summit has something out called the Encapsule that is pretty neat. I will try and check it out tomorrow.
5) I havent checked out footwear other than Patagonia.
6) Osprey Mutant packs are awesome. Granite Gear rules
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