SUL Backpacks

[michael levi]

Yep I have a 5-6 base and used to have a 7 and room has never been an issue. I got the black hybrid material which I like.

[Jeremy Rardin]

With those kind of base weights, what do your gear lists look like?

I am at 4 lbs 10 oz or so now with 40F temps, which includes full length sleeping pad, gatewood cape, down quilt, bug bivy, cooking etc.

[Caleb Johnson]

My Zero just came in today. It's a medium and seems absolutely cavernous compared to the Exos 34 I've been using. I could definitely have gotten away with a small instead. It looks like I'll have room for a 4-5 day food load without coming close to filling it. Not in any danger whatsoever of having to attach things to the outside.

[USA Duane Hall]

I measured my "stuff" and seems I need the large Zero with the mesh front pocket. Still a pretty light pack. Just ordered a shelter from Joe, but passed on the pack for now, as I have the Arc Blast, it'll have to do.
Duane

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Matt

awesome looking pack. So many good features about it.

Wondering, what mesh do you use exactly? Do you use different mesh for different parts of the pack? Would it be more efficient to use say cuben in some places than mesh (cuben could be lighter). Though I understand using cuben anywhere will lose some of the advantage of being able to see your gear. Do you tend to normally wear your poncho over it as a rain cover? If the pack becomes drenched, does the mesh you use absorb much weight? Have you thought of using some simple cuben pockets instead of all the containers etc on the bandoliers? I'd be worried myself about knocking one off and not noticing, and with all that velcro the weight wouldn't be that much different.

Any idea how much a prototype would cost?

Cheers,
Adam

[matt kirk]

Adam,

Thanks for your comments on the design. The mesh that I'm using on the first small production run of this pack is a 100% nylon "soft" utility mesh, which is similar but not identical to what's on my original pack that has served me well for 4000+ miles.

Like most mesh, it absorbs some water, but also dries quickly. I use the same mesh throughout this current design.

Your ideas of integrating other fabrics, such as cuben (which have both advantages and disadvantages) on various components are good ones. The bottom line here, custom made gear for you and by you is the best option; and the possibilities are virtually limitless.

RE the bandoleer gear: Yes, cuben pockets have been successfully used in lieu of plastic canisters. One easy way to do so is to stick the Velcro on the exterior (In my experience, adhesive Velcro bonds well to cuben).

I recently posted a video (sorry for the lack of quality) that may further explain the design and what the kit/prototype has to offer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOaCQQk74M&list=PLGWkaGOTx1QrN-GpyC6vPg8LWbxOmTLCG&index=68

You might have missed the form at the top of the page that I previously posted https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1jyHWqaOjJIQRJ84zGkUZuvedONQrhdKQIvcpH6pGQfg/viewform

I've yet to send out an email update to interested individuals. The intent is to (at the very least) offer these limited release "kits" at cost to those who have signed up first come, first served.

The production run will be completed very soon and when I finalize the spreadsheet, I'll know exactly what "at cost" is, but I'm hoping for around $50-60US. I plan to send an email update with additional details to those interested at that time.

[Jeremy Rardin]

Matt I am excited to see how things progress! I hope that I get to be a part of that initial group! If the 'kits' are going out at cost, how much would you be asking for one sewn together? I am not particularly handy with a sewing machine haha

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Matt, this really is revolutionary. There are so many positive benefits to the fastpacking SUL hiker with your pack system.

I'm definitely not in the sew it yourself category, unless I enlist help of my Mum or grandmother, but they are pretty busy, and sewing mesh would be a pain. Putting it together like in your video is no problem.

I don't think I've ever seen a pack where the hip belt is adjustable in its height position, or in the width it attaches to the pack, or the length of the wands (the last point I noticed the Osprey now have a way of changing wand length on their child carriers for different parents). I've also never seen a pack where the width of the shoulder straps is adjustable. Heck the mounting angle of the shoulder straps is adjustable on your pack, as is the mounting angles of the hipbelt. So much harness adjustability for ~300grams.

Seriously, what is the closest weight pack to it that has just a "simple" adjustable torso length? I can't think off the top of my head, but add a few hundred grams at least.

I've been questioning for a while, why are so many packs made from really tough material, and then half of the outside surface plastered with relatively fragile mesh, or tough material covered by tough mesh? It should be lightweight material (eg light cuben, silnylon) covered by lightweight mesh or tough mesh. Makes so much more sense!

I'd probably use my pack with a pack cover if its raining (and I'm not wearing a poncho), but just because I'm pedantic about keeping things dry.

I'm a sweaty guy and run hot when awake, I can see any bonus extra back airflow being really handy.

I really like your twist tie method. How long do they normally last? Are they the kind of twist ties used in the supermarket for tieing off bags of vegetables etc? Do you replace them regularly?

Cheers!

[matt kirk]

Adam/Jeremy,

Thanks for your enthusiastic support. I will be sending you guys more details via email soon. Jeremy, to clarify: the kits are already sewn, but the components need to be put together by the customer to achieve ideal custom fit, about as challenging as a Lego kit :-)

Adam, at first, I was using cable/zip ties, but did not like their unsustainable one-time use. What if you need to readjust? So, I tried releasable zip ties, but felt like I was going in the wrong direction (more complex, more prone to failure). Finally, I arrived upon the lowly twist tie.

Turns out twist ties are not that lowly and can get quite fancy and expensive (i.e. https://www.niteize.com/product/Gear-Tie-3.asp ). I needed a smaller diameter for the mesh I'm currently using, so I compromised and went with a less expensive but quite durable (35+ lbs. tensile strength) plastic coated, double wire (24 gauge) tie.

By comparison, most ties on bread bags are paper coated single wire (27 gauge). The idea is to not have to worry about these ties on the pack, but extras are provided just in case. They don't take up much weight/space in your gear kit and can serve multiple purposes.

[Damian Chavez]

I'm also getting excited about Matt's pack being available for sale and check his site daily now.

[Ken Thompson]

March 1st, $90 shipping included.

I was hoping for the lower price mentioned earlier :(

[Andy F]

Just an observation on the weight and capacity vs durability aspect:

My older (2010) GG Gorilla weighs 14.8 oz with everything removable removed, including cutting out the hydration pocket and carry loop. On lighter trips, I prefer to carry the extra 7 oz (vs a lighter pack) and have plenty of capacity and durability. I make up for it by carrying 7 oz less water. ;)

[alan york]

Matt:
Cool pack! Another way to fasten the shoulder/hip parts might be slick clips from Chris Zimmers web site.I just got a pair of hip belt pockets from him that came with these 1'' slick clips.Super easy to use! Might get you beyond the stigma of twist ties. With a mesh pack bag slick clips would be a nice way to add pockets or straps too.
90.00 seems fair to me.

I'd love to see you offer the mesh hip belt sepratly.It would be a great upgrade to a small Cuben pack!

[matt kirk]

Thanks for the suggestion on the slick clips. They look pretty cool. Any idea their tensile strength when pulled in various directions? Thanks for your interest in the design!

The $50-60 was the "at cost" estimate (how much it would cost me to make). For this initial run, I wanted to try and recruit some pack testers, and based on the feedback received offer sewn (or just materials for the DIYer) for free, or at cost. Most kits are going to be distributed this way, but some are going to be sold at the "MSRP" of $90. I hope that clarifies the discrepancy. I wish I could afford to give them all away. Thanks for your understanding.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

How thick are those slip clips, and will they fit comfortably through the mesh without straining it too much?

I'm happy with whatever price I'm given :-)

[Ken Thompson]

I understand. You know, it's money. Hard to come by extra. Not dissuaded.

"I'm happy with whatever price I'm given :)

What about another color?

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I meant between the $50/60-$90 mark.

Sorry Ken!!!

[matt kirk]

What color(s) would you prefer? When selecting colors for this first production run, I shied away from a white mesh because of its tendency to show dirt/grime. (My mesh pack with 4000+ miles looks more gray now). Green seemed like a good choice, but there are certainly other color choices. And regarding the trim/pack liner, I chose to go with blaze orange for visibility. Some of the orange webbing also uses 3M reflective strips for visibility. I guess I was thinking form following function…

[Jeremy Rardin]

I am more for function over fashion, but there is a unique opportunity with your pack design for you to allow a wide range of customizable options. Since each part is sewn separately and added on there is potential for a customer to order different colored main bodies, straps, and hip belt. If I were looking at two packs to purchase, the one that is more customizable looks more appealing. Take zpacks zero and the GG murmur. The murmur is a great pack but either a hit or miss for someone, but the zero can be customized in such a way that any and everyone could be happy

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I really liked the colours of the pack in the video. I agree white would turn icky, but maybe a light grey might be easy to see gear through…that's an experiment for you to perform. I've heard people say that black mesh is the easiest to see through so who knows.

Jeremy does have a good point though, especially for later iterations/after beta testing. Take a look at Dirty Girl gaiters, and some of the crazy skirts and lycra and hats and shoes out there in the ultra-running world. People that are into this kind of stuff really dig being able to have funky colours that normal people wouldn't be seen in public in. The option to mix and match might go down well with the masses. This is after all very light ultra running vest too.

In May there is a 12 hour rogaine I'm going in with some mates, that I'm keen to use it on. Should be fairly open but rocky and hilly country, will definitely be some patches of scrub to get through. Be a good test of it. Also I'm helping run a Scouts Bushwalking competition over Easter, be good to take it to that too to get some funny looks!

Cheers!

[Jeremy Rardin]

I just put my order in! I am really excited Matt! I watched the video a while ago but I just rewatched it haha and got even more excited. I just got a zpacks zero not too long ago so I will be carrying them both and comparing with my experiences with the Murmur pack. I wish I had time to go ahead and put a lot of miles into my Zero before receiving your pack so I wouldn't be alternating back and forth but this does provide its own unique opportunity. Thanks again!

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I also just put my order in to. The pics of the pieces look really good, looks really professionally done. I really like the colour scheme myself.

Cheers!

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Sorry to bring this up again Matt (no doubt you are madly busy filling thousands of orders for your awesome pack…) but have you ever had a bandolier come off? Whilst walking? Whilst running? Brushing against vegetation? Putting the pack down/picking it up? Just curious. I'll probably try out the concept, seeing as though you've included one plus the velcro, and I can't quite justify the expense of cuben pockets just yet.

Cheers Bro

(on a seperate note, I'm really impressed by your pot/bottle system, I've started the hunt for suitable bottles for myself).

[Ken Thompson]

I'll be waiting for Adam's detailed review…

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I'm meant to be writing my thesis…

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