Kammok Thylacine: A sleeping bag with interchangeable baffles

[Anonymous]

"Disclaimer: I do not know these people and do not have any affiliation with them."

Scott, you really don't need to say this in every post, just because of a couple people acted like "male appendages" to you in some of your earlier posts.

Most of us are aware that you're not trying to sell your own gear here.

Btw, at one point i was accused of hawking product here, which had no basis in fact, so i know how it feels… but please consider letting it go…

[Jeffs Eleven]

I was addicted to Kammok Thylacine for a few years back in the '90's. The stuff is no joke.

Good times, but I lost weight, teeth, and friends. Luckily my family was there to bring me back from the brink.

Be careful out there, people!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I don't think this product is a good idea.

The idea here is to make a versatile sleeping bag that can be all things to all people. This approach seems desirable, but it is virtually impossible to achieve without substantial compromise. In this case, by having "removable baffles" it creates the need for two layers of fabric (the regular sleeping bag shell plus extra material to encase the insulation). There is also a need for extra fabric in the shell (so the large cold weather baffles fit inside) and there is a need for additional closure systems (zippers?) to open and close the baffle areas.

The result is a versatile sleeping bag that is too heavy. For example, the ultralight 15F version weighs 43oz, whereas a normal 15F rated high quality down bag is about 32oz (ie. Western Mountaineering Apache MF). The 30F down version weighs 30oz, whereas a regular high end down bag is 20-24oz (ie. WM Summerlite, GoLite Z30). So there is a substantial weight penalty with this bag.

What is the advantage here? Instead of owning two bags, you can own one heavy complex shell, plus multiple sets of insulation. So you save a little shell fabric in exchange for a penalty in weight and complexity. I'd rather own two good bags. My 30F Zpacks quilt is 16oz and my 0F GoLite bag is 38.6oz and I probably spent less than this system.

[Anonymous]

Dan, i mostly agree. However, they really could have simplified things here–the idea itself is a good one, but the execution not so great though technical and has the "cool" factor.

I took a nice, light 40 degree down quilt (of the EE persuasion) and sewed a M50 sleeve and some velcro onto it.

Then i took a piece of 2.5 oz apex and sewed a small bit of fabric on the ends with some velcro to line up to the velcro on the quilt.

The total added weight of the mods, was very slightly under 2 oz. But the versatility is quite amazing, and it was really a very simple mod. Now i can have a 40 degree quilt for warm weather, or a 20 or so degree quilt for colder weather (which with my clothing system, and that i tend to run warm, i could get it down further).

If i have in between those temps weather, or if really windy, etc, i don't put the Apex in, but sleep inside the sleeve, which makes a noticeable difference when windy, or i toss or turn a lot.

If it's really wet and rainy but warm, i don't get in the sleeve, but flip it over and have the M50 material on top, which is fairly water resistant and protects the quilt well from splash etc. But since the M50 fabric is only on the top (the rest is 30D rs nylon), it still breathes well enough.

If it's both colder and wet and/or consistently humid, then the Apex goes in, and if i was on a longer trip especially i would have some "oh shite" insurance on down collapse.

Not too toot my own (oh gee shucks, ok, so i am tooting my own horn) i think this very simple, very light execution (i know for some of you 2 extra oz is OMG heart attack, but i'm not even close to being in that category), is a smart/practical way to do this.

But combine synthetic and down in one sleep system, who would do something so crazy?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

True enough. The challenge here (in the context of UL usage) is to achieve versatility without a substantial weight penalty. You're approach seems to be a good one. A few small bits of velcro is likely all that is needed.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Oh yeah, they'll hit their target. Good for them.

I do wonder why they've chosen the Primaloft 750 down/synthetic mix for the fill in the "down" option, when they could use some version of dry down that would be lighter, longer lasting and pack smaller.

[Max Dilthey]

Mixed insulation seems stupid. So when the 70% down gets wet, you'll be 30% as warm from the synthetic?

It's like mixing water and oil. They're too different to be any more useful together. I think it's bogus.

The drawstrings throughout the length to customize the fit are genius. I like those a lot and I hope this makes an impact. However, I don't see it as being substantially better than something like the Down-Hugger bags from Montbell, but it's cool and new.

I like the idea of an e-Vent shell. That's cool.

I feel like I already use this system. I own two sleeping bags; a 3-season 15º bag and a 45º summer bag. Together, they make a 0-ishº deep winter bag.

[Anonymous]

"Mixed insulation seems stupid. So when the 70% down gets wet, you'll be 30% as warm from the synthetic?"

The only problem i have with mixed insulation in one system is that down lasts a lot longer than synthetic so eventually part of the system will need to be replaced, but with my concept and application, that's very easy and fast to do. Also, you wouldn't be using the Apex as much as the down, and so the Apex part would last longer than it normally would as compared to an all Apex quilt.

But as far as the above quote, if you're on a thru hike, or a longer trip, that little bit can mean the difference between surviving and not. If you in such sucky conditions to begin with, you won't be comfortable, but the idea is survival and like the old saying, some is better than none. For those who have experienced it, total or near total collapse of down is really bad.

"I feel like I already use this system. I own two sleeping bags; a 3-season 15º bag and a 45º summer bag. Together, they make a 0-ishº deep winter bag."

This is BPL, and for the most part has evolved to BPUL with definite elements of BPSUL. The above is fine if it works for you, a young buck with the strength, vitality and energy of youth backing you, but a modular system like i came up with is going to be lighter and more packable, not too mention cheaper.

Those who can more easily afford it, might prefer just getting multiple quilts or bags for different conditions, which weight wise is the most efficient. My idea is for folks like myself, who can't afford that.

[Author]

Posts