Cold weather/winter survival shelter

Dale,

For me the advantage of a bothy bag is it can be deployed anywhere, there may not be a sufficent space to pitch a tent, also for me carrying a tent and sleeping bag would just be too heavy for day outings. the Blizzard, bothy and pad come in at a kilo, I would also be carrying an appropiate set of insullOated clothing so probaly about 2.5kg in total.

I do see merit in what you recommend.

But if you own a real shelter, pad and sleeping bag you will be far better of with them in winter conditions.

no other shelter + 40F bag will weight 385g and come in the size of a book …

for quick walks in the hills or for climbs done in a day, almost no one is going to back a full shelter/pad/bag … the bulk alone will upsize your pack

remember that these are EMERGENCY situations … im all for being prepared and all … but theres no reason to bring the kitchen sink in most situations

as a % of your pack an emergency shelter should be quite low … in bulk and weight … basically it should be something you can just keep in there and forget about it

also with a blizzard theres no setup … you tear it, shake it, and crawl into it … no stakes required … fire is helpful but these things are designed to be fireless down to freezing … in fact blizzard indicates that army medics use it a a first line of defense in treating and preventing hypthermia

heres why the blizzards are used by the military …

The Blizzard Survival Bag has been chosen for the Apache because, unlike air force pilots, British Army pilots have to carry combat equipment with them in the cockpit. This leaves less room for personal survival packs.

;)

Like I said, better than nothing, for darn sure.

If I'm hiking in the snow, I would start with a 70 mile drive and planning for a full day of it, so it's a mini expedition.

The solo issue is the real motivator, although any group members should have some basic gear in case they get stranded.

Take a road flare!

Mini expedition is right :-)

How heavy is road flare and how long do they burn for?

I am too much of a wuss for solo winter stuff.

Some of my buddies would barely have enough clothing/survival gear to last an hour never mind a night.

I am not seeing how a Blizzard Bag is much different from one of the SOL bivvy sacks. Does the Blizzard bag provide some sort of insulation to prevent radiant heat loss? From the photos on the web it looks like some sort of synthetic material with a reflective side.

There is a matter of degree too. Short hikes in country that you know can be fun in the winter and I would have good basic emergency shelter. This is where the blizzard bag starts to make sense. For longer day hikes, you can get farther in than you can walk out in the same time if it snows, you get disoriented, injured, etc, etc, etc, and that is where I would want the full meal deal.

Cold is a matter of degree: for me, 20F is really different than 0F and if there is wind, you will be a fudgecicle pretty quick. It just feels meaner when the wind comes up– does a number on my head anyway.

The really mean stuff is to get a slight thaw, so you have slush to plow through and maybe some 35F rain. Miserable. I'd much rather have the 20F and dry.

I had a thread on the 3.4oz Olin 5 minute road flare/fire starter at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=85381&skip_to_post=728659#728659

Most road flares are 15 minutes. I've been waiting for a sale to pick up a few to weigh and put in the car. My guess is more like 10oz or so. I think they make sense for a group outing with one or two in the group carrying a flare each. that's assuming everyone else is carrying classic fire starting stuff.

It is amazing out there in the winter. It is quiet (snowmobiles aside), no bugs, the small critters are usually asleep, and the world has a whole different look. Route finding is more of a challenge and the weather needs respect.

I am not seeing how a Blizzard Bag is much different from one of the SOL bivvy sacks

the blizzard bag is tested by the university of leeds to an 8 tog insulation value …. which is roughly around a 40F lower limit rated sleeping bag …

you can see how they do this on blizards web site …

it is a proven insulator in use by militaries and rescue services world wide …

theres also youtube videos with people dunked in freezing water in freezing temps who jump in em as a test

There is a matter of degree too. Short hikes in country that you know can be fun in the winter and I would have good basic emergency shelter. This is where the blizzard bag starts to make sense. For longer day hikes, you can get farther in than you can walk out in the same time if it snows, you get disoriented, injured, etc, etc, etc, and that is where I would want the full meal deal.

mr chounard once said something to the effect that if you bring bivy gear, your going to bivy … in climbing thats generally true if you bring a full blown setup, the weight and bulk will likely hold you back

it all depends on conditions … but realistically if you bring so much that youre comfortable while being rescued, it may well be thats part of the reason yr rescued … your too slow due to the weight/bulk … in climbing anyways i see people bring way too much stuff "just in case"

im all a fan of being prepared, but its always a fine line between bringing too much or too little … the more you test yourself the more likely you are to get it right

im not exactly a gram weenie …. but weight and bulk DOES matter if you want to avoid unplanned overnight bivies … bring just enough to survive

;)

Blizzard has several layers of reflective foil material seperated by air space with elastic to maintain the air space. Like a Neo-air sleeping bag. This provides a lot more warmth than a single layer of reflective foil.

Thanks Dale for the info on the flares.

I live in the Adirondacks and in winter I'm worried about hiking in 10F weather. Below that…forget it. I'm not out in it period. So my temperature range of concern is 10F to 30F.

I'm taking the Road Kill T shirt girl with me. If SHE can't keep us warm I ain't goin out!

"Seriousnessly" though, a heat reflecting blanket for a lean-to type "roof" and a clear plastic sheet/door WILL work if you have a reflector fire. Been there, done that in a NW Pennsylvania winter and was toasty with the radiant heat coming through the vertical clear plastic cloth. Only got up 2X at night to feed the fire.

BUT you must have at least three 12" double ties taped to the hems of the plastic cloth to tie onto rocks or a log to hold it down and to tie to the ridgepole of the lean-to. Also closing off the lean-to ends with branches, rocks, debris, etx, really helps keep the heat in.

DEBRIS SHELTER: Works great IF you cover the outside of the debris with more branches to keep the debris in place. I've done it with dry leaves and was warm in 30 F. with a summer bag but it feels itchy and leaves keep getting on your face and inside your bag – minor irritants compared to being cold.

The Road Kill T shirt girl can come on trips with me any time ;-)