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Trail Runners and Snow
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Dec 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm #2056005
If you wear a size 9 I've got a pair I'll sell you cheap (I've got the 288 GTXs). Excellent shape.
Dec 19, 2013 at 2:26 pm #2056006My feet are a bit too big for that but thanks. I think my Cascadia 7s are a 13 wide. My feet never were over a size 10.5-11 and now they have gotten big. Think it is the hiking. Could be the cookies though.
Dec 19, 2013 at 2:43 pm #2056010My normal hiking shoes are LaSportiva Wildcats that are generously, but not loosely, sized and I use the thin double-layered Wright socks. In rainy weather below 40 degF or so I add a pair of Cabelas Gore-Tex socks and my feet stay warm and dry. Below freezing I replace the Wright socks with a thicker model.
If the additional layers build up enough to change the fit of your trail runners, just remove the foam insole for those times. It can add enough wiggle room to make the same shoe more versatile.
Dec 19, 2013 at 3:29 pm #2056029>> I think my Cascadia 7s are a 13 wide.
LLBEAN sells most of their hiking shoes/boots in wide widths if you need them. They sell both Asian-made and European made boots.
I don't think I'd get a taller version of your trail runners for cold/wet/winter use. Maybe a mid-height hiker that splits the difference between your trail runners and your hunting boots. That would not only give you something dry, but something to split the difference in matching terrain.
The Keen Targhee is a popular mid-height hiker around here. Waterproof, not super heavy.
The hiking trails around here are brutal rocky, so I hike (and snowshoe) in these. They are traditional Italian GoreTex leather boots. Not real stiff for heavy backpacking, but very comfortable. The leather is great because water and moisture never even gets to the GoreTex liner as it does with mesh shoes:
I also have a fairly heavy low-cut boot from the same company. I wear these on smoother trails and as a fantastic around town winter shoe. I don't wear these much for rocky trails because I end up banging the heck out of my ankles.
Dec 19, 2013 at 4:37 pm #2056045Thanks for the tip on the LLBean boots. Will check those out. I was planning on checking out the Targhee IIs once I can get to REI. Good to know folks like them.
Dec 19, 2013 at 7:10 pm #2056098I thought that's what I was going to get. In fact, I ordered a pair from Zappos to try around the house. Really comfortable, but they didn't work for my foot in terms of providing enough support to keep my foot from slamming forward (like walking downhill).
I really liked how the Keens fit, though. Nice wide toe box.
The all-leather Bean Cresta Hikers were comfortable right out of the box. I wore them for a hike brand new and have never gotten a blister or hot spot. They get even more comfortable as I wear them.Dec 19, 2013 at 9:08 pm #2056156I love mine for short walks in cold, wet conditions. They are as waterproof as I need them to be. Nothing gets in from the outside. Unfortunately, nothing gets out from the inside either. More than ten miles or so, and my feet are soaked and slimy. So for me they are of very limited value. I'll probably sell them soon.
Dec 19, 2013 at 9:17 pm #2056158Slimey feet does not sound good at all.
I haven't had that problem with GoreTex leather hikers, but it may be because I wear a polypro liner and merino wool/blend hiking socks year round. I'm glad to take the boots and socks off at the end of a hike and the fresh air on my tootsies feels good, but I suspect that would be the case after six hours of hiking no matter what.
Dec 19, 2013 at 9:31 pm #2056161It's probably just me. My feet are always either cool and dry, or hot and slimy. If I stop moving in cold weather with hot and slimy feet, they quickly become cold and slimy, and I have to stop and dry them off and change socks, etc. I almost ruined my feet once so I may be overly-cautious now.
Dec 19, 2013 at 10:00 pm #2056170Maybe GoreTex barriers in boots really does breath better than the no-name membrane that Keen uses… but I seriously doubt it makes much difference.
In any case, I'll put up with sweaty feet to not have wet feet after stepping on submerged rocks crossing an ice cold stream.
Knock on wood, I've yet to have cold feet winter hiking or snow shoeing. My hands are usually the problem, unless I go with insulated mitts. That may be a function of old age… :)
Dec 20, 2013 at 6:52 pm #2056425I was just about to post this same question about trail runners in 20 degree weather and snow.
From what I read here it seems goretex runners with goretex socks might work, but a light pair of boots may be called for in some cases.
So I'm looking at 20 degree snow/sleet at night but getting to high 30's and maybe 40's during the day. Several river crossings..I'll probably use bread bags for these.
For the above I'm thinking the goretex trail runners with goretex socks should be ok?
Is that right?
Dec 20, 2013 at 11:55 pm #2056462I'm really no expert at trekking in hard core snow, so take it for what it's worth, but are you going to wear the gtx trail runners while crossing the river John? If so I think water would run over the sides, into your shoe.
I have two pair of light mids (both in gtx because they don't have them in a non-gtx version) and when they do get wet it takes quite a long time to dry if not in the sun. I.e. if I come home and leave them on the north side of my house it will take a lot more than a night to dry for example.
If you have low trail runners I would think more about breathable mesh versions that dry out a bit quicker, with a separate gtx sock and perhaps gaiters. I would consider separate river crossing shoes though.
Also as an aside, in my experience at least, the gtx shoes do get wet. They fair quite well in snow, but not in continuous rain – they consistently wet out in less than thee hours, at which time I'm really dogging in them. Good socks keep me going. But again, that is during the hot/humid rain season and tropical thunder storms, not snow.
Dec 21, 2013 at 12:37 pm #2056585For me I would only wear the boots in the winter or colder times. In the warmer season I would just wear the trail runners. I think I would rather have to deal with a slightly sweaty foot than a completely wetted out shoe and sock. But I am not dealing with mountain terrain and alpine conditions. The highest place in Missouri is 1700 feet.
Dec 21, 2013 at 1:31 pm #2056608"Several river crossings..I'll probably use bread bags for these."
Bring some stream crossing shoes, remove your boots and socks and cross the stream. Dry your feet, put your socks and shoes back on, and keep on trucking.
Dec 21, 2013 at 2:15 pm #2056633Doug demonstrating the above technique
Dec 21, 2013 at 2:23 pm #2056639I don't normally hike on trails that have water crossings. Trails close to me just don't have them. But I have started to do trails further away that do. Glad I brought my Keen sandals on the last one. Worked great and kept my feet and shoes dry. I will have to add water shoes to my permanent gear list, just lighter ones :)
Dec 22, 2013 at 1:31 pm #2056887Brooks Cascadia 7, Kahtoola Microspikes, NRS Hydroskin socks, Smartwool thin liner sock, ID shorty e-vent gaiters.
It works.
This photo is from yesterday: 6 hours of postholing in fresh snow to the summit of Mt. Baden Powell with Adan. He had essentially the same setup, minus the gaiters, using a thicker wool sock, and a different brand of shoe. He was a bit warmer than I was.
Temps were all over the place…well below freezing with windchill on north faces, 75 and sunny on south faces.
My feet were getting a little chilled, but primarily only when stopping on exposing myself to windchill on north faces. During activity, the hydroskins and wool liner were enough. Next time I'd go with a thicker sock though.
Understand that the hydrosocks aren't waterproof; they wet out, but trap heat relatively well if you're active. They will get pretty cold or even freeze if you stop too long though.
Dec 22, 2013 at 1:57 pm #2056892Hi,
wore 3mm neoprene socks as inner sock with thinn poly sockliner + full mesh trail runner and on very cold day walk on hardpack Alpine snow my feet got VERY cold/numb from cold once at rest.
Lesson learnt..Will never repeat it again:)Did any of you use thin Latex swim socks as VBL socks: http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/latex-swim-socks I might try them out this winter..I hate slipping feel of good ol' bread bags..
Thanks
Dec 22, 2013 at 2:31 pm #2056899I've had a bad experience with neoprene in snow. Neoprene seems to insulate in mysterious ways.
Dec 22, 2013 at 2:56 pm #2056903I've always thought this is yet another highly subjective topic.
My feet yesterday with the above mentioned setup were no colder than my feet are today walking around the house and doing yardwork barefoot at 7AM.
As a surfer, I'm pretty accustomed to having incredibly friggin' cold feet, so when people talk about their feet being cold, I have no idea what it means.
Dec 22, 2013 at 3:01 pm #2056907Ummmmmm, never mind.
Dec 22, 2013 at 3:14 pm #2056914I can handle cold feet as well, but when your feet start to turn red you have a problem.
I went straight from walking in a stream to walking in snow. I had heard of neoprene socks working well in socks, so I figured they would do double duty. I started off in the neoprene socks (nrs hydroskins) and It was way too cold. I layered some wool socks underneath the neoprene socks (not too tight) and I was still way too cold. I ended up taking the neoprene socks off and just using the wool socks and I was much warmer, however it was still a huge problem. In that experience, the noeoprene socks seemed to have a negative insulation and actually made my feet colder.
Those wool socks were my sleep socks, now wet and starting to freeze, and I was stuck on a ridge with temps into the teens with those socks. I ended up getting close to hypothermia that night. This was in Big Sur up at the window (4k feet) during one of those cold spells like we had a couple weeks ago, was not prepared for that.
I'm only more confused now that you say they have worked well for you.
Dec 22, 2013 at 3:18 pm #2056915I wonder if people having trouble with neoprene are actually experiencing poor circulation problems from the socks being too tight with layers underneath or not fitting in the shoe well.
Dec 22, 2013 at 3:20 pm #2056917"I'm only more confused now that you say they have worked well for you."
I too am a big fan of neoprene socks. It's been around 15° for the morning walks and I'm doing fine. This morning it was 10° and the snow was about 6" deep in places.
However –
1) My shoes are at least a size bigger than my summer setup and the wool/blend socks and the neoprene socks (NRS) are loose as well. My shoes are not laced tight. I also use a calf-high gaiter2) I wear a Lot of warmth on my legs, including wind pants if there is even the slightest breeze. If I skimp on the legs I usually get cold feet.
Edit to add:
3) For extend trips I do use bread bags over my feet – they really help to keep the socks dry.
Dec 22, 2013 at 3:41 pm #2056922"I wear a Lot of warmth on my legs, including wind pants if there is even the slightest breeze. If I skimp on the legs I usually get cold feet."
This is why I often hike in ski socks in the winter – I like having my socks cover my calves to help keep them warm.
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