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"The tripod on the other hand, I am still looking at lighter alternatives."
I have read that a surprisingly light tripod can be made a lot more stable by hanging some weight e.g. a filled water bag) from it as needed.
I defer to BG for all things camera. I'm sure he will know whether or not that is practical, but perhaps it can save weight on the tripod.
Not me.
In general, you don't need a mega-tripod unless you are shooting with a very heavy lens or camera. The exception might be for astrophotography.
–B.G.–
Thanks Robert, I had seen the Bear Boxers in photos before, but never knew they were lighter than a Bearikade. The price is not horrible on them either. I also like that they taper towards the ends. it would make them slightly easier to put in the pack than my BV, which is like packing a round peg in a square hole.
As for the weight on the bottom of the tripod, you're correct that it can help stabilize, if done properly. It can also cause a pendulum, so there is an art to it, but it is one way of making a lighter tripod more sturdy.
Bob, I was in San Jose Camera a week or so ago and saw some tripods (can't recall the brand), that also looked much lighter than my Giottos. At 1.9 lbs (not including the ball head), it's not outrageous for a tripod, but I'd sure like to improve on it. I don't even really have the requirement that it has to be as tall as me, like many people do. Especially for a landscape backpacking tripod, I don't mind squatting or kneeling to use it.
3400 cubic inches is very big. Maybe you can get a smaller kirafu pack. You know when you get your weight down, pack fit and comfort is less important.
There really has to be a better solution for your bug issue than a 4.5 pound tent. Look at a mountain laurel designs, six moons designs, zpacks, tarp tent, (there is a lot more) you should be able to find something lighter to suit your needs, there are a huge amount of ultralight shelters out there.
The poncho liner is essentially a big blanket and even if it's made of high quality materials, it's not very warm for the weight or easy to keep drafts out. It probably wont keep you warm enough for the high sierras.
Your concerns about down are irrational for the sierras. The sierras are generally very dry. Get some kind of waterproof sack to store the bag. If you are really going to be using a 4.5 lb tent then how is your bag going to get wet? If you are really paranoid then get a 10 degree down bag/quilt for extra insurance if it gets a little damp.
Either way a synthetic quilt would be better than the woobie.
So, a tripod is 1.9 pounds plus a head?
The tripod from Target that I mentioned is 17.4 ounces including a head. However, it only rises to about 50 inches from ground level. I suppose that you could make this serve as a shelter support pole, but I won't go there.
–B.G.–
Just as one example:
If you can get your gear down to under 30# total weight, which most people on this forum would consider a very reasonable goal, then you could consider the ZPacks Arc Blast pack. I do not own one, but it all of the on-line comments I have seen are very favorable. It is quite roomy, carries 30# comfortably, more if you must (e.g. until you have eaten some food), and weighs only 17 oz.
That would be one way to save over 3# easily.
Thanks for the insight Justin. I do have a Kifaru Marauder and Express (both 1st Gen). At 2,500ci, thanks to all the MOLLE webbing and 1,000d cordura, the Marauder is no lighter than the Late Season. The Express, at 2,300 ci is just too small. I've tried fitting all my gear in there and it just doesn't cut it. By Kifaru standards, the Late Season gives really good bang for the buck as far as weight/ space ratio is concerned, while still being bombproof construction. We're talking a pack that could easily last me decades of almost daily hiking (if I were so lucky) ;-D
The Doobie (double version of the Woobie), did keep me toasty warm in the Sierras last summer, including above tree line, and in a non-4 season tent. But I agree that there are lighter and better alternatives out there for summer use. I am quite convinced now that sleep system is one of the items I'll be changing out. I think I can cut my sleep system weight close to half of what it is now with a bit of careful planning.
Bob, yeah my tripod is 1.9 lbs not including the ball head. My current ball head is the Manfrotto 494, which weighs .7 lb. I REALLY like the looks of the Gitzo GH 1780, since I really want a leveling head for panoramic shots. The weight is almost identical to my current head and it will have dual use supporting my DSLR and big lenses when not backpacking. The Manfrotto head only supports 6 or so pounds, and my 5DII and 70-200l would creep sometimes with it. The Gitzo, for the same weight, supports 22 lbs (which is a non-issue with my backpacking camera, which is 13 oz).
I am intrigued by your thought of using a tripod as a shelter support. One of the hassles of trekking poles (2), was that the one in my left hand kept getting tangled with my dog's leash. If I used a tripod for one side of the shelter and only carried a single trekking pole…hmmm (the wheels are turning)
The small Bear Boxer is fine if you are doing only two or three nights out, but its volume isn't big enough for more. Mine weighs about 26 ounces, and it fits into almost any small backpack. It makes sense for me only if it is a short trip and my total load is only 15 pounds or something. Then I can take my smallest backpack that is sub-9 ounces empty.
However, I think we are talking about longer trips, more food, etc., so really quickly you get out of the Bear Boxer range and into a Bear Vault range. Then immediately you are into a larger pack, etc. It's all a vicious cycle.
–B.G.–
Bob,
Agreed.
The OP said 3-4 day trips, which I take to mean up to 3 nights ("What I'd like to hear from you folks, is what is a good weight I should be aiming for to get me into the "light" (as opposed to UL) category for say a 3 or 4 day trip in the high Sierras?").
Since he does not need to put the first day's food in the canister that means all he needs to put in there is day 2, day 3, and day 4 (breakfast and lunch).
Shouldn't that fit in a Contender?
The Bear Boxer Contender, I think, is the little one of 275 cubic inches.
The volume of backpacker food is all over the place, but I generally start thinking with 100 cubic inches per day. Plus, the OP is carrying dog food, so that adds more volume required. Now, if he could train the dog to forage for ground squirrels and such, he could cut back some of that requirement. In general, domestic dogs are not as good at that as a wild predator would be.
–B.G.–
Robert and Bob, let me add more clarification on the food issue. 4 days is the longest trip I am packing for, so that makes three nights. I am not a lunch eater…in fact, I rarely eat breakfast. Due to odd work schedules for the past 20 years, I am accustomed to only eating one "meal" per day (I know, super unhealthy). I snack at other times. What offsets the size of my meals, are the two cups per day (obviously half that on the first and last days) of dog food. Now I am considering freeze dried kibble if I get her used to it before hand, so that will save on weight, but not much on bulk I'm afraid. Based on that, what do you guys think about the Bear Boxer vs the BV450?
Hahaha, I laughed at the last comment on foraging for squirrels. You're thinking too small…my second to last trip she nearly got us venison for dinner. If it was up to her she would eat all her meals out…but I think that gets frowned on in National Forests.
Sounds like we agree that the human food would fit, at least if he is careful.
I did forget about the dog food, though. Given that, a Bearikade Scout probably is the lightest choice for the specified trip length.
Doug,
Your best bet is to get a container at home — plastic container, cardboard box, whatever. Cut it down or mark where the bear can volume comes and try packing your food (including dog food) to see what is realistic for you.
I don't suppose you could get your dog to go for dog food soup?
Seriously, part of getting light is taking care of the weight. Bulk is important, too — it can have a surprising effect on weight, such as requiring a larger pack or a larger bear can. If you could powder the dried dog food it would pack a lot smaller (and might enable a smaller bear can). See whether powdered dog food would enable the Contender for you.
Who knows? Your dog may just lap up dog food soup.
Once you get a lighter tent I bet you could fit everything in the express, in that case you would have good short trip and long trip packs.
For something in between I would recommend a ULA pack, maybe the circuit. They are ultralight packs that aren't made with ultralight materials, not as durable as a kirafu but much more durable than many other packs.
I would recommend looking at the enlightened equipment synthetic quilts. You should be able to find something that you like in your price range.
Re: Arc Blast…
we'll everyone is different, but the Arc Blast seems uncomfortable to me at about 25 lb.
My view is 25lb max form a comfort point of view…
but it's really better at about 22 or 23 lb…
Billy
@ Billy Ray:
"Re: Arc Blast…
we'll everyone is different, but the Arc Blast seems uncomfortable to me at about 25 lb.
My view is 25lb max form a comfort point of view…
but it's really better at about 22 or 23 lb…"
I prefer to stay under 23 lbs with any pack, even my Circuit.
They are all more comfortable that way.
With lightwt packs, it becomes an issue of tradeoffs. My opinion is to buy for the wt range where you spend most of your time, and not really worry about that first day, or the odd day where you need 4L water, etc.
But others do prefer to buy for the max load they might ever carry. To each their own.
If you keep your dog leashed, do you keep the leash in your hand or around your waist? I use a carabiner and clip his leash to my waist belt. Works great…and it allows me to use both of my trekking poles (now that I am a trekking pole addict. Thanks A LOT BPL….)
I even leave the carabiner on even at home, because if we stop off somewhere during a walk I can just make a nice loop around a pole or tree or something and he's nice n secure.
Doug, nice job asking questions and keeping an open mind. I think what a lot of people are trying to do here is to keep you from spending gobs of money (like most of us did) buying mid-weight items because we SWORE we needed them, only to end up buying something much lighter later. I personally felt quite a lot like you – I was slow to convert to down (I did most of my hiking in the Midwest and northeast), swore I could never go with one of those "frameless" or minimally-framed packs, said I needed a full tent (none of this tarp mumbo-jumbo!) etc etc. Well, many dollar signs later (I refuse to add it up) I now use a down quilt, I love my floorless duomid and am waiting on a trailstar from MLD, I hike in flimsy little gym shoes, my favorite packs have teeny little aluminum stays that I can remove for weekend trips…….
But as other posters have mentioned, this is a process. You mentioned the pendulum…perfect analogy: you'll eventually find the sweet spot for you, with the luxuries that are important to you. The problem comes after you start losing some pounds off your back…you see what a difference in comfort it actually makes (I literally can't believe how much more I like hiking now! I used to be more of a camper…now I just want to hike!! I love it!!), and how easy it actually is. It's a very slippery slope, and as the pounds come off you begin to see where else you can shave weight.
Honestly, and no offense intended AT ALL…once your pack weight comes down you'll see why people are saying the Kifaru is too much pack.
Good luck!!
"I use a carabiner and clip his leash to my waist belt."
I saw a good one today. A guy was walking with two dogs, and he had both leashes fastened to one carabiner, and that was clipped to the back of his belt. One dog walked to one side, and one dog to the other side. His hands held two trekking poles, and they were more or less in front, so the leashes never got in the way of the poles.
–B.G.–
Thanks all, for the continued suggestions.
Jennifer, I appreciate your remarks, and will consider it carefully. I’ve already spent a lot of cash on this hobby, and if I can learn from other people’s mistakes before spending on my own, all the better. Here is a photo of my Kifaru Express (2,300ci pack), loaded down with 50 lbs of gear for a hike a few years back:
…And then my McHale from a trip last year, with about 40 lbs:
So I am making headway at least (while spending cash). Hahaha
Your comment about the dog leash on a carabiner is interesting. I’ve seen that done for skijoring, but I’ve never tried it with trekking poles. Out of curiosity, did it take you a while to get used to trekking poles? As I said before, I really would like to give them another go, especially since my left knee has been injured repeatedly over the years at work, and long downhill sections of trail can get pretty painful. I’ve read that trekking poles are supposed to help with that sort of thing.
M.B…. yes, I know all that you say…
but I was responding to the OP who said in his first posting that have a comfortable pack was extremely important…
Billy
Doug, I second what others say about the mildness of the Sierra Nevada.
You won't experience enough of a storm to wet your sleeping bag while in your tent, and it would be sufficient to use a pack liner or pack cover to guarantee a down sleeping bag's dryness while hiking on the trail.
As for a tent, I've used chiefly TarpTents in the Sierra and never have had a tear in their floors. You won't be setting up your tent on a slab of spiky granite. It will be on forest duff, dirt, or decomposed granite, none of which will puncture the bottom. If you're concerned about your dog's claws, take along a piece of Tyvek or thin plastic sheeting shaped to fit the part of the tent that he'll be in.
For the Sierra, a tent doesn't need to be bombproof. Tents such as the TarpTents will keep out all the bugs and will be strong enough to withstand years of normal use. And what if, on one trip, you do discover a tear in the fabric? Patch it (you've got duct tape), or buy a new tent–they're not that expensive!
I realize you'd be satisfied with any total weight below 30 pounds, given what you've been used to, but there really isn't a good reason to carry a 4.5 pack or a 4.5 tent for 4 or fewer days in the country's mildest mountain range.
Thanks Karl, and everyone else who has mentioned down vs synthetic. I've spent most of this evening reading up on this site and others about down vs synthetic, especially in regards to the Sierras. You have me convinced that this is an area I can save lots of weight and pack size, and still be safe.
The quilt that is most appealing to me (of course I'm doomed to pick the expensive things in life) is the Katabatic Palisade 30, 6'Wide. At 20 oz, it is just a hair over half the weight of my 2 lb 2 oz Doobie synthetic quilt. I was hoping to find a down sleeping bag/ quilt for under a pound, but I am a side-sleeper/ toss'n'turner, who sleeps cold. This quilt seems like one of the few designs that is tailored to side sleepers. I'm still very much open to suggestions on it, as I'm sure I haven't seen all options yet. As I said, I was fine a year ago in my Doobie, which is rated to an optimistic 40*, so perhaps a 30* down bag is overkill, and the 40* might be better (and would get me in at around a pound).
I'm going to have to put some thought to the shelter system. The Fly Creek UL1 and the TT Moment are tents that I've looked at for years. I'm still mentally fighting with myself on the shelter logic. Having slept in both Hillebergs, an REI half dome, and a BA Copper Spur, there is no arguing that a 4-season tent is warmer. The question then becomes will I save at least as much weight by reducing clothes/ sleeping gear as the penalty hit I take with a heavier tent. I agree that the Unna is heavy, at 4.5 lbs. The Akto, while not light, can be brought to barely over 3 pounds with mods (as a member on this forum did if memory serves me correctly). I can see effective arguments being made either way.
Doug,
With down it is all about taking the proper precautions and having a strategy for keeping it dry under all conditions. The combination of Sierras and a full tent do really make your fear of it demonstrably something that is not reality-based. I think most of the staunchest supporters of synthetics in their proper context would agree with me on that one. If you still feel you need the safety blanket (no pun intended) for that one in a million case then bring along a 1 oz or so space blanket for the worst case scenario.
Glad you've begun to crack on that issue. The space alone you could save might allow you to drop down to the next smallest class of packs, for instance. There are not many replacement you could do that would have that kind of effect with zero reduction in comfort.
Here is a great 1 lb bag:
Most people find that the 35 deg rating is even somewhat conservative. I am a side sleeper and never had any issue with this one. Unfortunately it is pricey, but it will last as long as you will with proper care. Packs down to almost nothing. Think about getting the wider version if space to tumble is more your thing.
There are other examples too.
"The question then becomes will I save at least as much weight by reducing clothes/ sleeping gear as the penalty hit I take with a heavier tent."
This is an issue that has been dealt with here and elsewhere at some length. It is almost always by far the most weight efficient to go with a heavier down sleeping bag. That in and of itself is a no-brainer. The question is not total weight, but how far you are willing at the stage you are at to push this equation until other thing start to get compromised – like your arachnophobia. So you should be thinking about it in those terms. Get the lighter tent, and just bring a 20 degree bag (zpacks makes one that is less than 20 oz).
As to warmth of a tent, as a physicist I would hazard a guess that the warmth has very little to to with the 4-season vs. 1 season per se. A full enclosed shelter will minimize the convective heat loss. On the other hand this same air flow is what you want to keep the condensation down. Again context is everything. I find a tent like the black diamond firstlight does exactly the same thing with warmth for a pound less, and if you can afford it you can buy some ready made carbon fiber replacement poles and get it down close to 2 lbs. This is a bit heavy for UL, but seems perfect for you. However, again, context is everything. This is not a tent for conditions where there is a chance for a continuous 2-day downpour.
I'm wondering if the better solution to the dog issue isn't just to take with you a perfectly sized sheet of some tough (and cheap and replaceable) material such as tyvek to put *inside* the tent. That way you could decide on your tent based on its other features and not have the floor material be a make-or-break factor – kind of a dog-proof footprint for the inside of the tent.
Anyway, just more ideas to throw into the pot. The big three and clothes are %95 of it at the stage where you are at, and you should think in systems, as you have no doubt read here numerous times.
An option might be to carry a synthetic jacket with a down bag that way if you get whet at least you have something that will keep you alive.
“What offsets the size of my meals, are the two cups per day (obviously half that on the first and last days) of dog food. Now I am considering freeze dried kibble if I get her used to it before hand, so that will save on weight, but not much on bulk I’m afraid. Based on that, what do you guys think about the Bear Boxer vs the BV450?”
I agree with Bob G — 100 cubic inches per day is a good starting point for estimating space needed for your own food. Some need more space — I found where Andrew Skurka says he needs about 140 cubic inches per day. Some need less space — I have seen posts on BPL claiming they need as low as 70 cubic inches per day. Furthermore, everyone agrees that there is some seasonal variation. Obviously YMMV — let testing at home and/or trail experience determine your own actual requirements. 2 cups/day of dog food is about 29 additional cubic inches.
The following comments all assume 100 cubic inches per day for your human food. Adjust them as appropriate for your own value once you know it better. Assuming 100 cubic inches per day, the estimated requirement for your specified trip length (3 nights) is 390 cubic inches (plus room for all other smellables).
Here they all are, from lightest to heaviest:
There is no “right” one. You must make a choice:
For the Contender to work, your own food would have to be only about 60 cubic inches per day (more is OK if you can compress the dog food) — probably not realistic, but check it out. If you can make that work it would be the lightest solution. One other thought is that the Contender would work for you as is for 2 nights (i.e. 3 days). If that covers most of your trips you might get the Contender for them and keep what you have for longer trips.
Note: the Bearikades are not approved by the IGBC, and one allegedly failed in IGBC testing (see photo there). Last I knew, Wild Ideas had no plans to modify their Bearikades and re-test. I called the Tetons a few years ago and was told Bearikade was OK, but I think that was before the test failure, so I do not know what the current state is. This does not matter if you do not go to grizzly country — Sierras are fine — but check first if you care about anywhere that requires IGBC approval (e.g.Tetons / Yellowstone / etc).
Note: there was one bear in the Marcy Dam area of the Adirondacks (Yellow-Yellow) who figured out how to open Bear Vaults. She has since been killed by a hunter. There are conflicting stories as to whether she has passed that skill on to her cubs. There have also been some cases of a Sierra bear breaking into a Bear Vault. The point is that Bear Vaults generally work fine, but are not impregnable if some local bear has figured them out. Bears are very clever creatures.
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