Cliogear packs

Robert,
My short answer is yes I do; and I highly recommend the 45liter worksack for an experienced backpacker/mountaineer who wants a strippable(removing components as needed to save weight) pack.

I bought that 45L model a couple months ago, and have used it on a few day trips so far. It is unlike any pack I have tried before.. or more correctly, it is like MANY packs I have tried before, but with all the best features I want consolidated into one great lightweight pack.

I could write an essay about this pack; but Im not sure how much you or other readers want to know; so here are some key points..

Direct your attention to the chart below; I made it while researching my purchase. It summarizes the volume to weight ratios of several popular packs, Black Diamond, Cilogear, REI, and a GraniteGear. High volume with low weight is of course favorable, assuming a certain comfort level is maintained. I either own or tested these packs, and find them roughly equivalent in comfort. Therefore, comparing this density number is valid. I added 5 liters capacity to each pack for the analysis, to account for using some of the extension collar capacity (except the REI which does not have one).
1/2 stripped means 1/2 the removable weight has been removed, maybe the lid and a couple straps, or the belt and a couple straps; it's the average of full-up and fully-stripped weights.
I used the 'average' of the other three numbers for my own comparison since I will be using the pack full-up to base camp, stripped to summmits, and 1/2 stripped on trips to the crag.

The pack you are considering, the 60L Cilogear has the highest volume/weight ratios; far above these competitors

Another great feature of Cilogear packs are the removable straps. I hate strappy packs. I prefer to carry most everything inside the pack, and keep a snag-free and clean pack surface. with Cilogear you can remove all external cargo straps except two short ones wich can be rolled and taped.
I could go more into the use of straps but suffice to say you can configure them to compress or carry most anything. I just use 2 up top to connect the load lifter attachment points to the outside front middle of the pack, so actuating the load lifters pulls and compresses the upper 1/2 of the pack.. can't do that with any other pack I know of. Many combinations like that are possible.

Another nice feature is the removable framesheet/stay and pad. the included pad folds open to short torso size, or the sleeve can accomodate a GossmaerGear Thinlight or a Torsolite section(my choice). The conventional aluminum stay can be removed to use only the plastic framesheet, a-la GraniteGear. For alpine use, keep only a 90g pad to protect your back and remove the framesheet/stay for the summit attempt.

Waist strap and belts are comfortable enough. Not as good as the Black Diamond or Granite gear.

Sewing is done by a human on a sewing machine in Turkey; packs come with all threads un-finished (loose ends dangling), take a lighter and melt these.

I'll stop here; if anyone is actually reading this and wants to know more, watch for my BPL review.

Bottom line; this is a great pack for someone who will take the time to configure it for your body and particular trip.
Ill replace these with pics of mine when I get home..
no lid, and lid..

Brett—just cross post your mini-review to the Reader Reviews. It's great.
I've come close to buying one of these packs over the last couple of seasons.
I'm still eking out a little more service from my old Andinista, first, before it gets retired. There has been some talk of these Alpine Packs on some of the Climbing forums. The consensus is they are very good and as Brett documents, very light for their volume and infinitely (nearly) configurable. Also, that the shoulder straps and belt are a little rudimentary compared to some of the "Big Boys" packs. I understand, that these are getting tweaked for the better.

Not all Alpine packs adapt well to backpacking use. This is one that appparently does.

Thanks you two, thats exactly what I was looking to hear.

I guess my major concerns for the pack is durability as well as some issues with the hipbelt/shoulder straps that I've been hearing about.

I may just email Garaham about this, but I may just wait a couple months and see what comes out of this.

But what do you two think?

I'm in the process of selling my old Bora 80 from lack of use, and I was seeing the Clio Gear with its 90L expendable sleeve as a way of combining my 60L (a Serratus Icefall which sees a fair amount of use) and 80L packs into one for those rare times when I actually need the 80L for volume.

but Brett – GREAT review! You should post it under the reader reviews.

You should talk to Graham. He's a great guy.

Kevin, someone of your experience would really enjoy owning a Cilogear; its a quirky and unusual pack; you sort of have to own one to appreciate them.
I, too, waited a couple years to buy one; got mine with a 30% vets discount on memorial day. If the pack was c-rap, I would say so; or just not bother writing about it.

Robert, your idea on replacing two packs is similar to what I was trying to accomplish with the Cilogear. This pack is tough enough for alpine or canyoneering use (called"sawanobori" here), unlike the thin sil-nylon Meridian. It is light enough to be a 3-season backpacking pack, and I think extendable enough to be a winter pack.

Honestly I do not know if the Cilogear suspension will be adequate for your 80 liter load; Light is only good if it retains a certain level of comfort. I know the 45L is adequate with 20kg of wet rope and climbing gear.

One thing I forgot to mention is the narrow profile of the Cilogear; I really prefer the slim lower section of the pack. Its easier when breaking brush, wearing a harness, or scrambling over rocks; quite the opposite of the sagging scro-tum shaped Granite Gears (great packs otherwise; I've owned three).

note; what's with the profanity detector and medical words? A little to sensitive I think..

Brett,

That raises the bar on reader reviews.

Good work. Thank you.

It depends on how your body is adapted to carrying a load, and how you pack it. There are plenty of guys carrying ~80 pound loads around with these packs in Patagonia, Alaska, Peru and the Himalayas. Honestly, the majority of these guys carry 50 pounds around all the time, so they're fit for the approach slogs. Check out the picture of Calvin over at picasaweb.google.com/cilogear …You can see a bloated 60L pack with 1/2 of the crap they brought to the "wrong" side of the cerro torre massif to try a new route.

Cilogear packs respond best, imho, to putting the load high. Put the densest stuff on top, near your spine.

The durability of the 60L is pretty well respected in the climbing world. For instance, the guys who run the American Safe Climbing Association have not destroyed the packs they got last year, despite using them for over 350 days. That's 350 days of carrying iron and power tools into the mountains and crags of the USA.

The 45L is intentionally a lighter pack. You can read about the fabric differences on the website and on the blog.

Brett. Uh. Thanks. That's, erm, a wee bit of analysis…Have you taken everything out of the pack, released the load lifters all the way, and then clipped the DeeClips from the lid down to Sliplocks around the level of the crampon pouch? One user just showed me that trick, you get a eensy teensy summit pack that way. He also clipped the crampon pocket closed to shut up that volume as well…

…and while I don't care how you pronounce the word, it is spelled CILOGEAR.

Cilo is a massif in SE Turkey that I tried climbing back when I was living there full time.

I'd love to chime in on my Cilogear 90, which I've had for 2 years now, and I absolutely love. I've used it both for summer backpacking and winter/spring ski mountaineering trips.

For summer backpacking, I strip down the pack by taking off the top, hip-belt and removing the plastic/metal framesheet, using only a GG pad for support. It works great, and although I'm sure I could buy a smaller, lighter, delicate summer specific ultralight pack, I love having this one that does everything.

In winter the Cilogear is much, much nicer than anything else I've used. It's got the right volume for multi-day ski mountaineering trips, you can configure the straps to carry any kind of mountain gear in any way you can imagine, and it's tough as nails. When beginning a 5-day trip my starting weight is usually about 32 pounds including food, fuel and water weight. On these trips it's often necessary to strap the skis to the pack, so I've carried over 45 lbs with the pack with no problem.

And I do have to say that Graham is a great guy, with wonderful customer service and attention to detail.

Aaron

Great picture—-go Dynafits!

Ooop. above post is in reference to the Cilogear 60. It extends to 90L with the extension collar.

Aaron

Could someone post a link to Brett's review? I don't see it in the Reader Reviews section, and I can't find it despite repeated searches. Is it in a members-only section?

Brett's review of his Cilo is earlier on this thread—just scroll up. He hasn't posted his review in the Reader Review section like a good citizen. :-P

Thanks; that's why I was befuddled. Speed reading bad!

thanks Aaron, thats sounding pretty good, one last question though – is it easy to put the skies sideways across the pack or is only possible to attach them to the sides? Thats just one thing that I couldest quite see from the website.

Brian, sorry; the mini-review is now up in the Reviews section also. Kevin is right; it should be there; cross-referenced to this thread.
I will expand it after my 3 day trip this weekend with the 45L.

It's a great review and I look forward to reading your thoughts on the 45!

Brian

Hey Robert,

You can configure the straps in a million ways, and it's very easy to add two straps as loops, one on the bottom and one on the opposite top corner, with the top one having a quick release. you can just slide the skies into the bottom loop, and then click the top loop around the top of the skis. Super simple, and the way I used the pack this winter. Graham clued me in to this little trick, since I don't like carrying my skis A-frame stylee.

Oh yeah, one other thing I love about the pack for winter – the foam pad which is part of the suspension is great for sitting on, and as a backup or extra insulation in conjunction with my 3/4 length air mattress.

Aaron

I'm building some woven 100% Dyneema packs, and documenting it in the company blog…http://blog.cilogear.biz/?cat=20 should bring the relevant pages up.

If anybody's got any questions about the stuff or the process, just ask and I'll do my best to answer.