Socks – neoprene or goretex?

One clue to the variability of results could be fit.

I suspect that when someone starts jamming all those layers (liner, neoprene sock, outer sock) into a boot or shoe, it could create a fit that is too tight for good blood circulation. After a point, more sock insulation can = colder feet.

You can make some more room in your boots/shoes by changing to thinner insoles. Or removing them altogether. But there will always be a limit as to how much sock you can put into a boot and not restrict circulation.

Bill D.

If it is dry, then you don't really need either. A thick pair of wool socks will be just fine. If there is snow that will be coming over the top of your hiking shoes, goretex socks can keep your feet from being soaked in snow/near freezing water that can result in frostbite and amputation. If you are crossing streams that are not frozen over solid and are knee deep or deeper, the goretex socks are not going to work and you can use neoprene.

I had Gortex socks on my AT hike this year. We had a lot of snow throughout March. I was extremely happy with the gortex socks. My fit were always comfortable.

I used neoprene socks in the past for river crossings in cold and was just as happy not having them. Meaning my feet were cold either way.

Agree with John here. Unless you're going to be in more extreme or wet conditions, you probably don't need a specialized sock. On my last hike, last weekend, I wore what are essentially semi covered hiking sandals and when I started hiking in the morning it was around 25 f. My feet never once got cold. I wore a thinnish merino-nylon sock on feet and over same a mid weight polypropylene sock.

Should add that there was no snow.. if there was snow, I would have worn a mid weight wool type sock (with highish nylon content) and my event teva shoes or light and very breathable shoes with wool socks and goretex socks.

I personally wouldn't do VBL for active unless it was real cold (below zero)

Still confused about this myself.

My strategy for winter was going to be neoprene socks over a thin merino liner in mesh trail runners. I would carry a synthetic insulation booty for camp. Is this sound?

If you're using waterproof boots and gaiters you are asking useless questions. Assuming the boots actually work, you won't need anything else to keep out moisture. You might benefit from VBL socks which will keep the boots and outer, insulative socks from getting wet from sweat, though on overnights this is usually not such a big deal. Success with VBLs appears to be highly personal, some peoples feet don't like them.

Goretex socks are a great supplementary tool when using non-waterproof footwear. They have mediocre durability and are only good if your stream crossings are shallow.

Neo socks are for those occasions when your stream crossings are too deep for anything else. Most of the reports of cold feet in neo socks are the result of incorrect application and unrealistic expectations.

I would suggest that people specify exactly what conditions they are talking about.
Otherwise we're comparing apples and oranges.

Winter in New England states, Virginia, the Rocky Mountains, Arizona, and the Pacific Northwest are VERY different critters.

temperatures, wet snow, dry cold snow, deeps snow, river crossings, overnight in a cabin or overnight in a bivy bag… very different critters…

Billy

I used the 0.5mm NRS "Hydroskin" neoprene socks over the Thanksgiving holiday in Shenandoah NP. The park had received a light dusting of snow, 3-5cm in places. Streams were all still flowing well with no ice on top. Daytime temps were 1-4d C, coldest night got down to -9 C or so measured on an acurite "window" thermometer with the suction cup removed. The neoprene sock was my outer sock layer with a smartwool PHD ultralight ski sock underneath, my shoes were Inov8 Trailroc 255s, which are non-goretex and have about 2cm of clearance before they start to fill with water.

I was never uncomfortable while walking and my shoes were either soaked with cold water or snow all day every day. As long as I kept moving I was fine, the water would penetrate the neoprene sock but my liner socks never got more than just damp. In camp I switched to thick wool "mountaineering" socks, and would put the neoprene socks over those if I had to walk around. The neoprene socks, without a shoe around them kept out the very dry snow (it was after dark and below 0d C every time I made camp) totally. My sleeping socks never got so much as moistened. Ditto when I'd have to get up to pee in the night; I'd pull on the frozen neoprene socks over my sleeping socks, shuffle out into the cold and well, you know. No major discomfort during camp tasks, although my toes did get cold after a while – but they certainly weren't wet and cold.

The second night I somehow forgot to take my shoes in with me to bed and they froze solid in the night. It was very difficult to put them on in the morning and they had to be beaten against a tree before I could do so, (there was no visible damage to the tree afterwards… good stout southern oak). The first 30 minutes of that morning was pretty sporty, basically hiking in a couple blocks of ice – but my feet, although they hurt plenty, never felt like they were getting to the point of being dangerously cold or totally numb.

If temperatures were colder, maybe -10 C daytime, then I will personally change to a thicker neoprene sock, maybe the 2mm ones. Also on my next hike I'll swap the thick wool sleeping socks for down booties w/ a waterproof overboot which are both warmer and lighter than my wool socks which weigh more than my rain jacket.

YMMV but that's my experience with neoprene.

In response to Billy Ray's suggestion I'll describe more fully the conditions I will be hiking in. It will be winter hiking in the Adirondacks and I would only be hiking in temperatures from 0-25F degrees. No sub-zero (Fahrenheit) hiking.

The terrain will either be flat or mildly undulating. No mountaineering.

There could be snow, perhaps even lots of it, but there may also be very little snow accumulation. Each year varies around here. The ground will be hard as a rock and slippery with the occasional daytime thaw and evening freeze.

No streams to cross.

My hiking would mostly be day hikes but may include a single overnight which would be done in a lean-to. I'm fully equipped with winter equipment and clothing including down booties.

"My hiking boots would be waterproof and and I'd wear a goretex gaiter so I'm not clear why I'd need or want a goretex sock."

wii…

If your boots have room for a warm sock(s) you should be fine with your waterproof boots and gortex gaiters. I don't see any need for a gortex sock or neoprene sock. So long as your boots do not leak I don't think your feet would be any warmer with a gortex sock or neoprene sock inside your boots than with just a warm pair of sock(s).

People use gortex socks and neoprene socks when they expect their boots to leak cold water to the inside. If yours don't leak, then no need for them.

I have camped in the winter in tents, bivy sacks, snow carves and been to the top of Mt McKinley and other snowy peaks. Never used a gortex sock or neoprene sock and I was just fine.

It's a good idea to put your boots inside your sleeping bag at night to keep them from freezing. If they're wet you can put them inside a waterproof/breathable bag in the foot section of your bag if it is long enough.

But a couple of pairs of dry, warm camp socks would be a good move as the socks you hike in during the day will likely be moist or wet from sweat… especially inside a waterproof boot.

Hope this helps,

Billy

Thin neoprene diver's socks that have been seam sealed inside and out with Mc Nett type urethane seam sealant from a tube.

These socks were meant for diving, not walking, so you need to wear a pair of thin polypro or polyester liners (NOT silk) inside them to protect against blisters, although I've never had blisters with neoprene socks.

I've used them for over a decade inside felt pack liners to keep them dry. Neoprene is incredibly warm compared to even heavy winter socks.

P.S.
Remember, GTX will not keep your boot insulation dry from perspiration but neoprene will. Dry boots are a MUST for overnight camping. I always remove my felt or (with ski boots) foam liners and put them in my sleeping bag so I have warm feet in the morning. Cold toes in the morning HURT!

My concern, from reading various threads, was that if I stayed overnight the moisture, from feet sweating all day, would dampen the inside of your hiking books (or their insulating layer) and would freeze up during the night.

I thought the GTX or neoprene (or grocery store bag) trick was designed to contain the moisture from your feet to within the VBL, including a thin layer sock, so the rest of your hiking boot remained dry.

No, VBL and Goretex are the complete opposite. VBL keeps moisture from being transmitted through the membrane. Goretex is design TO transmit moisture through the membrane. Said another way. Goretex is a crappy VBL.

One issue that isn't been mentioned, is the fit of GTX socks: they don't stretch like normal socks so try before you buy. I've tried the Rocky-ones and they just don't fit my feet (and we tried a lot, ask my wife).

Here's what I use:

polypropylene liner socks
VB socks: thin neoprene socks or turkey-sized oven bags (whatever will fit without restricting circulation)
wool socks, use thicker ones for colder temps
Rocky GoreTex socks (oversized at least 2 sizes)
thin insole made of reflective windshield protector
non-waterproof mesh trail runners

Using this system, my toes were darn cold at around 10F in the morning, but my toes get cold easily. They didn't warm up enough to be comfortable until 1-2 hours later of snowshoeing. If I had been able to use a thicker wool sock (like the Wigwam Ice Sock), I would've been fine, possibly down to 0F when active. Another factor is that my shoes really needed to be at least a size larger for all the sock layers, and they were probably restricting circulation very slightly.

If you're using boots, keep in mind that they will restrict movement of your feet more than trail runners. This will reduce heat produced by small muscles in your feet as well as circulation.

This winter, I'll experiment some with not using the GoreTex socks and using another pair of oven bags as my outer waterproof layer. I'll put my shoe insoles inside this to hold it in place, reduce sliding and reduce wear on the bag. I'll carry at least one spare pair of course.

If temps are going to be consistently at or below 10-15F, I'll switch to mukluks with removable wool felt liners and insoles.

For the conditions you describe I personally would not bother with neoprene or goretex socks. Rather I would just get lightweight waterproof insulated boots like the New Balance MO1099. Be sure to go up a size to accommodate thick wool socks. An earlier version (New Balance 1000) were highly recommended on BPL by Will Rietveld and his review is worth reading. For more extreme conditions some like Neos insulated overshoes but they are probably overkill unless you start winter camping.

New Balance MO1099 = "water resistant"

water resistant is NOT waterproof

This suggestion would appear to be worse than what he has now… see his original post.

Billy

Billy Ray

I wasn't sure if the OP had already purchased his "waterproof" boots and was suggesting a light alternative shoe for the conditions the OP described which is essentially day hiking in the Adirondacks. I use the NB 1099's up here in Canada for winter "day" hikes and snowshoeing and my feet stay dry and warm in them. The lower half of the 1099's is waterproof, the uppers I spray with silicon to enhance the "water resistance". Used with or without gaiters depending on conditions these boots should be quite adequate for dayhiking the Adirondacks.
Ross