Lithium ion batteries in freezing temperatures

I think you answered your own question :)

But I do think rechargeables will never have quite as much power as fresh new batteries.

Hi Michael

I did? I must be heavy today… I don't get it.

I think you said they perform good twice. Being rechargeable doesn't change the fact that it's lithium. I'm a little cookie right now it's late.

Depends on the battery. Manufacturer’s specs:

Eneloop AA batteries go to -20° C with 1900 mAh capacity and 1500 recharges.

“Eneloop XX” AA batteries go to -20° C with 2550 mAh capacity and 500 recharges.

Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA non-rechargeable batteries go to -40° C with about 3500 mAh capacity.

Battery life depends on how you use the battery. Continuous high-power use, like reading with a headlamp on high, or cooking, typically doesn’t get as much energy out of a battery as intermittent low-power use.

— Rex

Okay, i guess both Lithium ion and Eneloop is good enough for cold weather use, no need to geek deeper on this subject, thanks guys.

+1 for Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries.

OMG expensive, but all I have carried this year. Rock solid performance in all weather conditions.

> +1 for Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries.
> OMG expensive,

Actually, 'expensive' is a false idea.
Don't measure the cost of a single battery; measure the cost of the energy. If the Li battery is 5x as expensive as an alkaline but outlasts 10 of them, which is cheaper in the long run? With the advantage that the Li one will actually WORK in the cold; the alkaline ones won't.

Cheers

yeah, but that is not what my bank account thinks every time I buy a case of them

"If the Li battery is 5x as expensive as an alkaline but outlasts 10 of them, which is cheaper in the long run?"

Life will vary with any device, but for the stuff that I need to power, one lithium primary battery is equal to about three or four alkaline batteries.

Also, the concept of cold is relative. Alkaline batteries will fade out a lot in cold temperatures below 0 F. Lithium fade is very little, by comparison. If you always keep your flashlight in your pocket for warmth, then this won't affect you very quickly. But then, if you always keep your flashlight in your pocket, what are you illuminating?

–B.G.–

I am a carpenter and have used a variety of Lithium Ion Batteries through the cold winters in Montana. They sit in the truck and are ready to work every day. They seem to be just fine. The old Nicad did the same though.

J.

Hi Bob

> Alkaline batteries will fade out a lot in cold temperatures below 0 F.
I suspect you meant to write 'below 0 C'?
Because around 0 C is where the electrolyte in alkalines freezes. Lithium cells do not include water.

Cheers

Lithium batteries weigh significantly less than alkiline, also. I think about 1/3 less though it has been many years since I weighed them.

folks …

theres a difference between lithium and lithium ION bats in terms of their temp range

Conventional Li-ion chemistry starts to suffer as the temperature drops below 0°C and the internal impedance of the battery increases. The result of this effect is “voltage droop,” which becomes more pronounced at –20°C or lower. Cell capacity is also reduced during these lower temperatures. If these cells are used or stored at –50°C, irreparable damage may occur under certain conditions to internal separators within the cells, making the cells a safety hazard.

http://electronicdesign.com/power/operating-conditions-get-tougher-li-ion-batteries

Substantially reduced energy and power capabilities of lithium-ion cell operating at low temperatures pose a technical barrier
for market penetration of hybrid electric vehicles and pure electric vehicles. The present work delineates Li-ion cell behaviors at
low temperatures by a combined experimental and modeling approach. An electrochemical-thermal coupled model, incorporating concentration- and temperature-dependent transport and kinetic properties, is applied and validated against 2.2Ah 18650 cylindrical cells over a wide range of temperatures ( −20◦ C to 45◦ C) and discharge rates.

note that this study published in the journal of the electrochemical society is probably the MOST RELEVANT to BPLers … a it test consumer grad cells that many of you use in your zebralights, sparks, naos etc ….

http://ecec.mne.psu.edu/Pubs/047304JES%202013.pdf

http://www.piranhastuff.nl/downloads/li-ion-battery-temperature-ranges.pdf

http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm

Li-ion batteries are widely used at room temperature because of
their high specific energy and energy density, long cycle life, low
self-discharge, and long shelf life.1-3For certain defense and space
applications they are required to be used at low temperatures
(<-30

"I suspect you meant to write 'below 0 C'?"

I intended to write 'below zero Fahrenheit' because that is where I notice the problem. Zero Celsius isn't that cold, and I don't notice it much there.

–B.G.–

Eric, in order to make the distinction between the chemistries of different lithium battery types, I always found it convenient to talk about them in terms of lithium primary versus lithium rechargeable. There may be other lithium types as well, but they don't show up in consumer goods.

–B.G.–