Compare and contrast two down pieces

[Ian Schumann]

On my continuing fall 2013 quest to find a great 1 or 2 insulating pieces that I can keep for years … for this particular thread I'm looking at a "mid"-weight insulating piece, with a hood, and relatively full-featured, that I can use to hang out in-camp on cold dry winter trips, such as the occasional frigid Texas state park, or a jaunt out to the high desert of Big Bend.

These two pieces are not the sum total of my search, but they both look enticing and interesting, and I'm curious if anyone has any experience with either. They are:

• Montane Featherlite
• Rab Microlight Alpine

The specs are nearly identical:
– ~5oz of euro 750fp down
– 16oz on the money (some sites have 12oz but that appears to be wrong / impossible)
– 2 hand pockets, 1 chest pocket (I believe these are the same)
– skinny sewn-through baffles

… and so on.

Now my question is, does anyone have any experience or impressions with either? I know Montane and Rab are both seriously legit British brands, and I've been happy with windshirts that I've purchased from both. I know the original hoodless Rab Microlight has been around for a while and people probably have some impressions of that one, and the Montane Nitro (hoodless predecessor to Featherlite) has been around for at least a season or two as well.

Finally, another reason I'm considering these two pieces is because they are both on Campsaver in my size right now, and they have a coupon running :-)
… but if somebody thinks there's another similarly- or better-priced piece in the same class as these that might be just as warm, durable, and usable, that I should consider … let me know :-)

[Ian Schumann]

For comparing apples to detailed apples:

Rab:
http://www.campsaver.com/microlight-alpine-jacket-men-s

Montane:
http://www.campsaver.com/featherlite-down-jacket-men-s

[John S.]

The Montane is baffled so may be warmer. It is pertex quantum so more breathable but not as strong as microlight fabric. My 2 cents.

[Josiah]

I got a Montane Featherlite hooded jacket from another member on here and I am very happy with it. I'm 5'10" 160 (typically an U.S. medium) and the large fits me very well with room to layer a light jacket (an MEC Uplink hoodie for me)underneath. The construction seems to be very solid. I really like the hood – fits comfortably and securely on noggin even in strong winds. I've only used it on one trip, but I thought it was definitely warmer than my Marmot Zeus (though the Zeus didn't have a hood to be fair). I used it in camp in very windy conditions around freezing and stayed pretty warm with the MEC underneath (I am pretty cold natured). My large weighs 15.7 oz.

Overall I think I've found the jacket for me. There may be a better one out there and my only experience is the Zeus, but I am very happy with the Featherlite.

[Ian Schumann]

Ha, excellent use of the compare function! I neglected that.

I believe the "Box Baffled" on the Featherlite is probably incorrect. First, I think this piece would be priced unusually low, and the weight would be unusually low, to have all the rest of the specs here that it has and be box-wall constructed. Second, Montane seems to always note explicitly when their pieces are box-constructed:
http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/insulation/featherlite-down-jacket

(no mention of it there, so I assume it's a sewn-through getup)
(anybody else who might be more knowledgeable than me, feel free to chime in)

But, thanks for noting the shell fabric difference, John. I remember having a Microlight windshirt from Montane a few years back and was pretty impressed with the material. But in any case I don't see wearing out either of these pieces with my intended usage, so probably durability is of little concern.

[Ian Schumann]

Thanks for the feedback Josiah! I'm curious, did you find the hood was suitable and non-ridiculous for using without a climbing helmet on? I would probably just be using the hood over a fleece cap or that kind of thing.

[Josiah]

I did find it very suitable unlike some helmet hoods. I don't know about non-ridiculous, but I can send you a pic when I get off work if you'd like.

[William Chilton]

Ian, when you say "euro 750 fp down", do you mean the down is sourced in Europe, or that the fp is measured by the European system? AFAIK, both Rab and Montane quote fp according to the U.S. system.

[Bob Bankhead]

Enhance your search for gear with the many great compare and contrast reviews here

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/

[Ian Schumann]

William,
My assumption was that since all their specs are in grams, that the fill power might be quoted by the European model as well. Maybe not a fair assumption? You might have better intel than me. In any case, 750fp(USA) ain't nothing to scoff at.

[William Chilton]

Ian,Rab switched to the US system some time back, presumably to compete in the US. I'm speculating, but possibly Montane switched to have an even playing field with their main UK rivals?
Info on RAB fp here: http://rab.uk.com/reference/technology/sleeping-bags/down.html
and Montane here: http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/insulation/featherlite-down-jacket
As you say, 750 fp (US) isn't bad. Some argue that it is more suitable in jackets than higher fp.

[Ian Schumann]

Gotcha, good catch on that William!

Your last line is interesting — some argue that lower fill power is better in jackets? Is that because the higher average density (higher weight per same volume) means the down is more likely to stay lofted when you're bending, moving, putting on backpacks, etc.?

I could see that. That 850 / 900+ fp stuff is crazy whispy. Seems like a light gust of wind could completely collapse half of the baffles in a jacket, with insulation that light. No?

[michael levi]

If that one really has boxed baffle construction then that is pretty awesome. If it has 5 oz of down to then it should be nice and warm considering some 30 degree quilts have about 9oz of down.

[Ian Schumann]

Michael,
It sure would be awesome, but it seems impossible.

First, there's no way all the specs could be the same as the Rab jacket (weight, features, fill power, and almost price) but be box wall construction instead of sewn-through.

Second, as far as I understand, it would be ludicrous to create so many tiny / narrow baffles in a jacket with box wall construction. The sewing job would be insane. If you look at box-constructed jackets that are clearly labeled, such as on Montbell or Montane's sites, you can see that all of them have rather large baffles and the seams aren't so tightly beveled. In other words, just visually, the Featherlite doesn't appear to possibly be a box-wall jacket.

But yeah, if it was, that would be awesome. If that was correct, I feel like we would have heard about this by now, though. I believe the mistake is just on Campsaver's own site.

[John S.]

From Ian's link, the image describes as below…micro baffle

FEATHERLITE™ DOWN JACKET
ULTRA LIGHT HIGHLY COMPRESSIBLE MICRO BAFFLE MOUNTAIN JACKET

[Ian Schumann]

Anyone know what "micro baffle" means? I assumed it just referred to the rather narrow sewn-through baffles that are clearly visible there in the jacket, actually rather in both of them.

Am I wrong?

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Since other brands mention that also, I think you are correct.

[Rick M]

del

[Ian Schumann]

Thanks Rick,
Actually you're writing just in time to coincide with what I'm also realizing.

I'm doing a quick write-up / round-up of the five puffy jackets that I have (temporarily) accumulated for selection purposes (which will be posted on this forum in a new thread shortly). In doing so, I weighed my used GoLite Roan Plateau (hoodless) that I've had for 6 months or a year. For some reason I always thought the scale said 1LB,6OZ, but today I realized that the scale was always saying 1LB,0.6OZ. Wait holy crap that's a big difference! That Roan Plateau is a really warm jacket, like a big happy half-sleeping-bag, and it only weighs a pound? I didn't realize that. This is an older model so I figured it was just a heavier edition. I had also figured, consequently, that a 22oz down piece was a little heavy to bring on a cold 3-season trip in Texas, so I should just upgrade to one of these that I mentioned above. But no, it's just a pound. Same weight as these two British puffies mentioned above, better fill power, and probably better features, at least for my usage.

In other words, I don't have any need to upgrade anymore. My own weight / scale correction today shows me that I already have a piece to fit this niche, and clearly there's no need to hunt higher up on the budget (like over $150) to put something in its place.

Good call. Thx. This is one of those moments where the hunter-gatherer gear shopping instinct (as described by Dale Wambaugh) had run a little too far. Thanks for reigning me in :-)

[zorobabel frankenstein]

Ian, could you please measure the center-back length of the Roan Plateau? Please mention the size if you do.
Thanks.

[John Vance]

I have a large Roan and it is a tick over 16oz as well. My Golite Bitteroot in large is dead even at 14oz. Both are great values when purchased on sale. I picked up both between Thanksgiving and Christmas during the 12 days of Christmas sale they have done. The Roan year before last and the Bitteroot last year – $99 and $149 respectively.

[Max Dilthey]

This thread is one of the most educational I've read in a while.

My thoughts:

1. See how they fit. With specs this close, the better fit with the rest of your system (fleece, baselayer, vest, whatever) is going to be the better jacket. If the sleeves aren't long enough, an ounce here or there doesn't matter.

2. Seems because of the fabric differences, all other stats being equal you're choosing breathability vs durability. In this piece, I choose durability because in Texas, you'll never have to really move in a down jacket.

[Ian Schumann]

Hi Zorobabel — that's a cool name(?) :-)

I have a size medium. I don't have the jacket with me at this moment but will measure it when I get home today. In the meantime I can tell you that I am usually a size medium across most brands, and I do better with a "slim" or "fitted" medium than a "regular" or "relaxed" medium. I've got a long torso for a short guy too, I usually wear size large backpacks.

That being said, the Roan Plateau has better torso length / butt coverage than any other UL down piece that I can remember trying on. I'm putting together a comparative review right now and will have the details fleshed out later this week, BUT in the meantime you can check out the "comparative fit" photos on the half-finished google doc here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F5z2bQrYDgNdKRwBNdmPBPWvbXOoPE9dxyxRlw6Ouvc/edit?usp=sharing

I'm not sure it's totally clear since the photos in that doc are more thumbnail size. But, the only piece in that lineup that has as much length is the MHW Nitrous. But the Nitrous is deficient in a lot of other ways — not very lofty, more of a relaxed fit, that kind of thing.

Hopefully this helps. I can post the center back length a bit later.

[zorobabel frankenstein]

Thanks Ian!
I appreciate the comparison. The Roan Plateau sure looks to be the longest of the bunch.

[Scott Musack]

That is a great write up you have linked there Ian. Just had to pop in and say so!

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