Question for TT Dbl Rainbow owners

[JCH]

I currently use a TT Notch for multi-day lightweight backpacking and an MSR Hubba Hubba for a base camp or not-concerned-with-weight "luxury" shelter. Being a 6'1", 220 lb. guy I love each of these shelters ease of entry and ability to leave (both of) the flys open in the rain. I'm looking at replacing the MSR with something (much) lighter…something that I wouldn't mind backpacking on a multi-day trip when "luxury" would be worth the (small) weight penalty. Until Zpacks cuts the price of the Duplex in half :) the TTDR is currently at the top of my list.

I'm seeking real-world experience with the TTDR's sloped vestibules, which both reduce the width of headroom, and allow rain into the tent when open. I see there is a velcro-attached "flap" between vestibule doors designed to alleviate this problem, but how well does it work? How much does it affect ease of entry/exit when deployed?

In short, comparing the TTDR to the HH what, and how severe, are the tradeoffs related to wet weather ease of entry/exit and ability to leave vestibules open?

[Todd T]

I have the Rainbow, not Double, but the little flap is the same. I'm tall (6'5"), and when the door is deployed in porch mode, the entry/exit mode is definitely "slither." Not really a viable option when it's raining.

[And E]

Warning, lots of words and probably a bunch of autocorrect/spelling errors…. Typed on my phone.

My fiancé and I use the double rainbow. We're both 5'6" so can't speak for how it'll do for tall people (it's palatial for us).

We've had it out in a thunderstorm (which caused several mud/rock slides 25'+ deep that closed the highway we drove in on for a couple weeks). It held up in the rain just fine and we even got out of the tent at one point to go huddle in lightning safety position when the storm was directly over us (with almost no delay between flash and bang and 20+ strikes a minute). It was pouring at the time, but we didn't have any issues with water getting in other than from what was on our jackets/rain pants. We didn't have the porch (the flap that velcros the doors together) deployed either.

As for the head room issue, shouldn't be an issue for you, as we're both able to sit up at the same time and change, etc without smacking each other.

Besides, if you are using it as a palace for one, you can have all your stuff set up at one side and use the other side for entry/exit, this way whatever rain does come in will stay on that side (the single center pole design kind of makes the floor fabric bunch/raise up a bit down the center along the whole length so water would not cross over from one side to the other).

The design is great, especially if you're using trekking poles anyways. We set up on a bluff up in the Enchantments and it got really windy (with wind direction changing frequently all night), and at one point, I was holding up the wall to keep the tent from collapsing (we weren't in an ideal pace and were on solid rock with no extra guylines used/not heavy enough rocks for tie outs and set up with trekking poles in free standing mode). We moved 20 feet down to a sand/dirt area and actually staked the tent out properly and used trekking pole supports in the vestibules with guylines and the tent didn't budge after that.

You can see pictures of our setup pre and post wind on our blog linked in my profile. For wind/snow weight support, the trekking poles go up vertically in each vestibule, there's a grommet on the inside at the top of each vent you can pop your trekking pole tips into, then you put lines on the pole and run it out the vent and guy it out. We put our handles up and spiked the tips into the ground. After doing this, the vestibules would flap a bit in the strong gusts (I have a few inches of shockcord at the ends of my vestibule lines) but the tent itself stayed put with no danger of collapse.

Sorry my reply was so verbose.

[JCH]

Todd – That is what concerned me…I don't "slither" well. The design feature of the HH that I like most is being able to open the vestibule, and enter/exit the tent, in the rain without anything dripping into the tent proper. Sounds like this may be a non-starter for me.

AndE – I've been through a few storms like that…one in a hammock!…and it's never fun. Thanks for your advice and comments. TT makes great stuff and I had no doubt that the DR was a great tent. I think however that a few of the design choices/tradeoffs just aren't going to work for me.

Thinking now about the Stratospire(s).

[Sam Farrington]

John,
I see there is an MSR Carbon Reflex 2 on Geartrade for around $250.
Seven oz more than the DR, but it's a double wall tent.
Haven't dealt with GT, but you might want to check it out.
It is a very similar design to the DR, both based on the old Phoenix Phreerunner.
Pretty sure the CR2 was reviewed here on BPL a few years ago. Excellent review, and you could pull it up for detailed info.
Good Luck.

[Franco Darioli]

"both based on the old Phoenix Phreerunner"

It may come as a shock to you but the Double Rainbow was actually based on the Rainbow.
The Rainbow was a shelter that HS wanted for himself (and his dog), the DR came after because it seemed the logical thing to do.

Now the Rainbow, and we have done this before…, was inspired by three non British tents, one was a Montbell and another was the MacPac Microlite.

Neither of those two really look that much like the Rainbow but that is were the idea came from.
(Can't remember the other one but was another single longitudinal pole shelter).
Not many in 2005 in the US had ever heard of Phoenix, the company was already dead by then. With Google now is a different game but late 2006 or 2007 ,when someone pointed out the similarity between the Rainbow and the Phoenix, took me a while to find a photo of it because the two I eventually came across were buried in someone's blog
Anyway this is the Phreerunner:

and this is the Rainbow :

BTW, I have been playing again with a Brooks Range Propel.
The reason I bought that tent is because that is a design I suggested to another tent company (not TT) well before the Propel existed.
My version was inspired by a Vaude tent, where BR got their idea I don't know but certainly not from me…

[rmeurant]

Franco mentions the MacPac Microlite. I think it was that bloody tent that I was conned into trekking thru Zanskar with, sight unseen, with 2 Kiwi girls in 1984. First night out, I realized how unsuitable the tiny thing was (a single hoop 1-2 person tent), especially with everyone having a cold, so spent the trip bivouacking where I could. Then returned to Delhi to pick up my lovely blue Wild Country goretex dome that I had stupidly left in storage.

[Franco Darioli]

At that time the Microlite was "light" and a popular solo tent.
But yes it is small and that is why HS put a spreader bar at the top.

[Sam Farrington]

My mistake, Franco. The forerunner of the Rainbow and a number of similar tents that have a long arc pole topped by perpendicular strut was the Pheonix Phreeranger, not Phreerunner. The names are similar, and I was misled when attempting to fact check the name by what I assume is some incorrect labeling on the Compass site.

The Phreeranger was used by Chris Townsend in his trek across the Yukon, related in his book, "Walking the Yukon," published in 1993. It was also featured in an article in the Canadian magazine, "Explore," also written by Chris.

The similarities were once noted and discussed in a thread on this site, in which Henry Shires disclaimed knowledge of the Phreeranger when designing the Rainbow. The Phreeranger came first, however, so I have given credit where it is due.

[Franco Darioli]

you can't base a design on one that you don't know…
My guess is the the MSR CR2 was based on the Hubba Hubba.

Of course it is possible that MSR had the CR2 based on the Phoenix, then added bits to make that Hubba Hubba and then years later relised the CR2.
But maybe not…
Hubba Hubba

CR2

Phoenix Phreeranger :

[rmeurant]

I think tents like the above illustrated by Franco are also conditioned by limited (i.e. finite) spatial or formal possibilities, and it becomes inevitable that their form will eventually be "discovered" and elaborated by designers; and there is no reason why that might not happen independently on diverse occasions for the same formal arrangement.

There are only so many generic ways that for example, two hoops can be related to one another. They can both be approximately or precisely the same length, or their length can vary significantly. Either both touch the ground, or only one does, or only one both ends and the other one end only, etc. etc. They can cross at right angles, or at a distinctively different angle. Where they cross can have 4-fold symmetry, or only 2-fold symmetry. They can touch or cross just once, or twice, or not at all. They can be parallel to one another, or angled. They can be vertical, or angled to the vertical.

Some bright spark could no doubt undertake a PhD dissertation on the subject, providing a generic classification of lightweight tent structural forms. Or perhaps they already have.

I'm still waiting for an elegant solution to the cross-over point of the two hoops of the classic iTent form that would allow folding at the apex for packing, and which has the two hoops passing through the same apex point (through a hub), not one over the other. Dunlop has a solution of sorts, but it does not allow folding, and the two hoops are still one over the other. Maybe such a quest for purism is extreme…

[Franco Darioli]

Anyway, to get back to John and his quest…
The Rain Curtain in the DR does reduce the height of the entry point but exists so that you can sit inside in the rain with the doors open .
To get in and out without crawling you undo the Velcro strip that holds it to the fly.
However if you do expect to often spend time inside the shelter in rainy weather, the SS2 has a lot more covered/drip free area than the DR and many other tents around that weight.
This is a photo I posted on another thread to illustrate the drip free area ( where the mats are..)

The SS2 fly only is 25oz and can be purchased like that (without the inner)

[Derek M.]

John,
I have no experience with the Hubba Hubba tent, but I do own a Double Rainbow that I use when backpacking with my wife.

Before I purchased the DR, I too was worried about the sloping bug netting walls. I had heard some people complain that it reduced the interior space significantly, and I was concerned that this would be an issue.

It turns out that it's true, the sloping walls do limit the interior space a bit, but not really by that much. When you are sleeping, the sloping walls will have no negative effect on your experience, and if you are hunkered down in the tent with another person, there is plenty of room to sit facing each other along the midline of the tent.

Also, I found one huge advantage of the sloping walls that nobody seems to mention, and that is that it allows you to look at the stars from bed if you scooch all the way over to either side and press your head into the netting (I know it sounds uncomfortable, but it's not). I doubt that Henry Shires took this benefit into consideration when he designed the DR, but it sure is a nice feature in my book. My biggest complaint about tarp-tent type shelters is that it's usually hard to stargaze in them when it's nice outside, but the DR makes this totally doable.

Anyway, I find the interior space of the DR very reasonable for two people (even more so a couple), and it is absolutely palatial for one person.

Now, as far as the wet entry/exit thing goes, I find that the tent is pretty simple to enter and exit while it's in "porch mode" with the vestibule raised into its awning format and the middle flap secured in place. I don't find it to be much of a "slither" myself.

I set the DR up in porch mode as often as I can when I think it's going to rain (or if it's already raining). There would have to be pretty significant wind for me to want to give up the breathability and general airiness of the porch mode setup in favor of the fully buttoned-down vestibule mode setup. Plus, it's easier to convert the porch mode into the fully-closed vestibule mode than vice versa, so I always like to start in porch mode first and see if it will be sufficient (which it usually is).

I did a whole lot of research before buying the DR, and I still think that it's probably the most well-designed, versatile, and livable non-cuben fiber tent in its class for backpackers that don't use trekking poles.

The new Zpacks Duplex tent does look pretty awesome, and I'd love to own one, but man that's a hefty price tag! In contrast, the Double Rainbow delivers a whole lot of performance for a $275 tent. Also, the Duplex would only save me about 17oz when I consider the fact that I'd need to carry the optional tent poles (2oz each). Tarptent Double Rainbow (41oz, fully seam-sealed and with guylines) vs. Zpacks Duplex with two 48" carbon fiber poles (24oz).

Sometimes I just try to be happy with what I've got :)

[Ryan Nakahara]

one of the first things i did on the double rainbow was sew loops into the sides (on the material between zipper and netting) to pull the sides out using that elastic strap on the fly. i put a little hook on the end of the strap and attach it to the loop when i want a few more inches of space from the side walls.

[And E]

Get Ryan, could you post a picture of your modification?

[Derek M.]

Ryan,
I'd like to see a picture of your modification too. It sounds like a useful addition.

[Author]

Posts