Vest for underneath arcteryx atom lt hoody

del

Eric certainly likes to dwell on the FUD of being "exposed" to nature. Judging by his countless BPL posts on bears, lost hikers, hiking/climbing/avi accidents, etc., I wonder how he even manages to muster the courage to leave his room! The sky might be falling. It's dangerous!

stooping to personal insults now Rick?

i didnt even mention anyone dying did i now, but you just had too =P

wet down is no fun, its really that simple … now in a world where no one screws up, im sure perfect people can keep down absolutely and utterly dry … however if you do notice than in maritime climates like people do tend to use synth a bit more in the off seasons … those brits especially, and even us vancouverites …

you can read 2 stories that BPL members just posted today about getting their down wet … on todays "Western Mountaineering on water resistant down and Pertex fabric" thread

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=83532&skip_to_post=712108#712108

are you going to resort to more personal "snarky" insults again now?

;)

del

i use both down and synth … often down under synth ..

in fact due to our refusal to pay outrageous amounts for heating bills in the PNW … i use both every day, 12+ hours a day, in the house, and sleeping inside and out … all spring/fall/winter long … im wearing it right now

if you noticed my prior post … i commented that down likely works fine for shorter durations and sprinkles … but it DOES have disadvantages … just like anything else

and i suggested that he make his decision on various factors

now just so were all nice and happy and dont get into tit for tats here on BPL …

i suggest the OP becomes a member and reads this … it basically answers most of his down vs synth questions …

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/rab_xenon_vs_uldownhoody.html

my personal view is that down works fine IF you know what you are doing, and IF you dont make mistakes if you are in a damp environment … however the reality as shown by stories on BPL, and not just the ones i post, is that people do sometimes make mistakes or dont know what they are doing

they might not die, but then one tries not to be miserable

and to note the OPs original idea of a down sweater/vest under a synth layer is likely the ideal method of moisture management … mountaineers have been using the system with overbags for decades, and BPLers have recently taken up the concept again …

heres a few links

http://thunderinthenight.blogspot.com/2011/04/thunder-on-tundra-gear-sleep-system.html?m=1

http://www.fjaderlatt.se/2010/04/across-sarek-in-winter-sleep-system.html

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/double_up

i have personally dried out light down sweaters and vest under a synth layer with the right techniques … even in the rainy PNW … if you have read my prior post over the years you would know that i am a very big proponent of down under synth for flexibility and moisture management … as long as youre wiling to deal with some faff

;)

del

del

The down jacket I have is definitely not warm enough to use on its own. I got is for $30 from American eagle on sale. It works well enough to run around town in the winter but that's going from the warm car to a warm store. I think it would be good enough as an additional layer under something else but that's about it.

Re: info
I will look into down jackets as opposed to the atom sv. I've noticed other posts and reviews sating how synth starts deteriorating after the first compression so that's a definite + 1 for the down. But at the same time, I don't see myself going out more than 3-4 times from fall to spring. And any jacket I had would be just rolled up and put in the side pocket of my backpack. So not really compressed anyhow. The weight, eh, is not such a big deal. I haven't seen any drastic difference to where I'd feel I needed down overt synth to save the weight. The atom lt is 16 oz and I can live with that. But if I can get something comparable that weighs 12 oz instead, then I'd definitely go for the down.
As far as getting down wet, it's not so much worrying about It being wet and me freezing as it is worrying about keeping it dry. I like everything as simple as possible when I'm camping so while wet is wet, synthetic seems slightly less of a concern. Although I doubt I would even go if I knew there was going to be rain in the forecast. So it seems it comes down to personal preference as I think both would suit me well enough. Both have their pros and cons and both are better suited for different situations. I don't think there's going to be one jacket that will work for everyone for everything. Just a matter of what compromises one is willing to make.

No you're fine. Knowledge is invaluable so I'll listed to everything. Do you were you MB as an outer layer over the pat? 5 oz sounds pretty nice compared to 16 for the atom

And would I need something under the MB EX like the nano puff for the kind of temps I'll be in? If so, my only concern with that is having all those sleeves on my arms. LS base, wind shirt, pat NP, MB EX, and a rain shell. I know it's nit picky but thinking about five different sleeves makes me claustrophobic lol. Which is why I was looking for a vest in te first place. The atom lt wasn't going to be warm enough on its own and the sleeves were tight to allow for layering over. Which is then why I decided on the SV. Warmer and bigger selves to layer under.

I just checked out golite and Mayr the bitterroot, which was mentioned, or the roan plateau would be my best bet as far as down. Thoughts?

del

One more thing. Is it better to get two lighter down jackets and layer them as opposed to one heavier one? Ie the MB frost line with 5 oz of fill.

You said that should be ok with a mid layer underneath. Do you mean like the MB EX?

del

After reading and reading and more reading. I feel like either of those jackets would be overkill. Realistically, if it's cold out, I'm not going to be hanging out outside my sleeping bag and tent anyhow. Maybe to make dinner and coffee in the morning. Other than that, I'll be in my tent. So I think something like the MB EX would suit me fines layered with a medium weight base. I could always put my wind shirt and rain shell on if I did have to go out and if I was too cold.

i own and use a MB exl, often under an atom lt

the exl for me is barely good enough for freezing, and definitely not enough if its raining in our 100%+ humidity days here in the PNW … i can tell you that the 900 fill down is definitely not 900 fill at that humidity level … my fleece feels warmer on those days

now when its below freezing and everything is bit dryer, an EXL and an atom are good to no more than 20-25F for me when paired

your metabolism or conditions may be different from mine … but personally i find that this high fill power down to be a bit overhyped in our PNW conditions during the shoulder seasons

heres is a bit of food for thought …

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=39920

Ryan Jordan
( ryan – BPL STAFF – M)

The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.

;)

Thanks for all the info everyone. I definitely appreciate it. I'm leaning toward the MB UL jacket or parka. 2.5 oz fill and 9 oz weight. That's and a nice base layer. Like I said, I don't Forster myself hanging out in the cold longer than needed. So I think that should do it. But I am considering the MB alpine light. Not much more weight and prolly much warmer.