Backstitch vs Lockstitch

i feel that if you ever wanted to sew webbing and make a bar tack, reverse would be crucial

Define awewome deal.

A brand new machine, table, motor, etc can be had for $1000 to $1300, depending on where you are exactly, and what you want from the dealer. Second hand, I see consew and singer 111w go for about $600 locally (Chicago). My mechanic has rebuilt machines for a bit more than that, fairly often.

Having said that, there are all sorts of ways to live without a reverse. you can put a couple stitches on top of each other. You can take a couple stitches, stop, rotate 180 degrees and sew. You can take a couple stitches, lift the presser foot, and move the work back to where you started.

I wouldn't have a machine with no reverse for production work, but as a hobbyist, or very small scale production, or for repair work, it would be fine. But don't pay too much for an old machine that has little commercial value left in it. Don't fall for the "they last forever" line. They don't; they require maintenance (To start with, the 225 has about 20 places to put oil, every couple hours of operation). Neglect and abuse will take their toll, even on heavy industrial machines.

I have purchased non-reverse machines for friends at yard sales for $100. Well worth it at that price. Large stuff like tarps need few reversing motions anyway. Small stuff like stuffsacks are easy to turn and back stitch. Complicated things that are bulky are more of a pain.

Don't pay too much. I wouldn't go over $150 if you have time to wait and get just what you want.

I'm a little confused by this thread… Isn't the Consew an upholstery/leather machine? What are you planning to make that would need the capability of sewing thick leathers?

I have done some leather work, minor upholstery projects, etc. on a regular "home" sewing machine with no problems, and those sell used for under $100 — with reverse, zig-zag, and several other stitches that you'd probably never need…

That's what I was thinking Valerie, maybe regular home machine is sufficient for most sewing

The consew 225 is a triple feed walking foot machine. It's a clone of the Singer 111W155. It was originally intended for upholstery and light leather work. (You'd use it for leather jackets at the heavy end.) But sewing heavy goods are not the only attraction of a walking foot machine. Consistency of feeding with difficult materials, repeatability of operations matter too. Walking foot machines are wonderful for inserting zippers, attaching bindings and stuff like that. They also excel at dealing with multiple layers of fabric, they keep all the layers moving together, so the middle ones don't slip.

I wouldn't use this machine for sewing cuben or silnylon, but for more normal weight pack cloths, and their trimmings (bindings, webbing, zips, etc) it would be very nice.

Truth be told I sew some pretty heavy fabric, not all of it is "ultralight" so I think an industrial walking foot would be nice.

The machine was $400 with table and looked like it was in pretty good shape. I think I'm reconsidering though. I'm sure I could live without reverse but in the long run I'm sure it is handy to have. Thanks for the input!

Adam,
Am still puzzled why you would want such an expensive machine.
There are home machines that are more than adequate to make all the packs, tents, etc. I've done.

As for the backstitch issue, the answer depends on your skill as a seamster. Making only a pack or tent every few years, I have nominal skills, and could never function without a backstitch control. But a lot of professional seamsters don't even have to bother with the backstitch control in order to backstitch. So it depends.

Also agree that these machines have a definite lifespan. They all inevitably wear out eventually, and are not really worth anything at that point. I have a Kenmore ZigZag purchased new in the early nineteen seventies that served me faithfully for many years, punching through the heavier webbing and fabrics that we used to use, and never leaving me with the feeling of needing a walking foot or other gizmo to make sewing easier. But it has finally become worn beyond repair, so bought a new Pfaff that I hope will do the job, especially with the current materials that are much lighter. Could have gotten a walking foot with the Pfaff, but wanted to wait and see how it functions generally before making any greater investment.

Good luck with your decision.

Rather than trying to use a more and more powerful machine, why not simply use the correct sharp needle?

Although I use my lightweight Brother for ultralightweight fabrics most of the time, I've also used it on heavy grosgrain straps and so forth. If I've had to sew through heavy fabrics, I simply slow down, but I use a new needle each time. Zigzag is nice to have, as is reverse, buttonholing, and a dozen other stitches.

The machine cost me every bit of $80, new. That's cheaper than trying to get an old machine repaired.

–B.G.–

I have a somewhat cheaper, mid model Singer home sewing machine. Been wondering, how the heck does one sew onto straps, like as in backpack straps. For example, i want to add a chest strap for a MLD Newt pack, but the straps seem too thick to sew on my machine, or am i just missing something?

I'm more or less a newbie sewer.

Why do you care that he wants to spend a pretty modest amount of money on a tool that will make his life easier, and which will have a pretty stable resale value? Using good tools makes work more enjoyable, easier, faster, and better. If I had to work with low end domestic machines, I wouldn't do nearly as much work as I do. The machines simply don't have the performance to feed as accurately, to make stitches as accurately or as nicely, and wouldn't last very long for my use.

If you've never used an industrial machine, suggesting that someone use a home machine instead, because it's cheaper, sounds pretty silly. it's like suggesting that making gear out of cuben is silly, because you can make it out of cotton canvas, which works just fine and is cheaper.

Here you go, David. Your own words:

"I wouldn't have a machine with no reverse for production work"

Needing an industrial machine to sew up a backpack is like needing a 5-ton dump truck to run down to the corner store for a quart of milk.

–B.G.–

JMHO From a professional seamstress….when I started 40 years ago I got by with whatever I could get at a good price, sewing machines and sergers but I was not sewing for clients. So no harm done there if the OP wants to do that and deal with no reverse.
BUT Babylock sells a bomber machine called the Denim Pro (now named the BL18 selling for around $200.00) that you DIYSers would really love, it can sew silks, taffetas and really thick layers also. I have done miles of 1/4 inch thick pleats with it, and use it for sewing corsets which are many layers and lots of thick binding edges. It's my "go to" machine for a lot of my work, all I have to do is change needles and tensions for fabrics and off we go!

Oh and Adam, try not to do the "lockstitch" you described, it just makes more holes in whatever you are sewing and weakens the fabric, true backstitching has a purpose, it strengthens the ends of your lines of stitches and prevents unraveling and hence lengthens the life of whatever you are producing. And there is a product called "Fray Check" by Dritz that is a great product, one drop on the ends of your seams on the backstitching and they will never unravel.

+1 of the Fray Lock. yes. use it.
on external seams of gear you can use mcnett (even better)

life sans reverse is a pain in the shorts. it's still beats the alternative, but it's not very efficient.
you really really will want both reverse and zig-zag (for the bar tack). out gear requires not much in the way of industrial penetration types on machines. that said, a nicer unit is always more fun to use/have/enjoy. consumer unit reverse and zip-zag dates back to the Kennedy adminestration (at least).
the multitudes of various stitches found on modern machines are good for lord only knows, but nothing i've ever faced.

there is not much need to "buy" a sewing machine. millions of them exist, and most often a nice person will gift you with one if you are a decent being.
i do own a rather spendy model of serger, and it does an astounding number of cool things, but it is about useless for sewing normal gear.

this is a good thread (and a bad pun) with lots of solid info.

cheers,
v.

Sewing nylon webbing is easy for home machine – very loose weave so it's easy for needle to go through.

Sewing through 2 layers of 200 D fabric + 1/8 inch foam is difficult – you have to go slow and let it feed by itself. And Velcro can be difficult for some reason.

Maybe take several fabrics to sew on a machine before buying it?

My mom's 1960s machine had about 30 places you have to oil, required a lot of maintenance.

Newer machines have sealed bearings and require much less maintenance.

Maybe buying an old machine isn't such a great idea?

Thanks again for all the great information. It brings up a great point. My interest is in sewing egyptian cotton in the 3 1/2 – 4 oz range, however that type of fabric is exceedingly hard to get your hands on. I think I've settled on the next best thing…duck canvas in the 6 – 7 oz range. I was told by a pro in the business that my Necci pressure foot might be a little underpowered to handle 6 layers of the fabric (for a rolled hem sill) and that a walking foot would be nice to have. I should try it out on the Necci and see though.

I know that this probably doesn't fall into the realm of "UL" but there is a lot of great MYOG minds here.

what is a rolled hem sill?

Lot of good insight here. I personally don't consider reverse crucial. There are a number of ways to compensate.

Smaller items can be spun around on the needle (with the feed stopped of course) 180 degrees as Dave Olsen mentioned, for larger items you can crank the needle to the top position with the drive wheel and then lift the presser foot, push the work back an inch or so down the stich line you just laid and stitch over it again.

As mentioned, just running a single stitch on top of itself is not a good thing, and will rape low denier fabrics like we use for shells and quilts.

$500 or so is not unusual or outrageous for a good commercial machine by any means, although usually it's justified by some sort of special feature, like, suitability for feather weigh fabrics (I have two Brother DB2-B755s, which like the similar model Juki's are excellent for 20 denier and lower fabrics, and designed for working with silk weights), pullers, twin needles, special feeds (needle feed, ultra feed, whatever), specialized folders or whatever.

Anyway, use what you've got, you can make most tools work with the right technique, but don't be tricked into thinking that just because a machine is "heavy duty or commercial" it's particularly more valuable. Many old home machines are just as capable and rugged as the commercials, and the old commercial machines often are impossible to source parts for etc.. New machines almost all have automatic lubrication, which is a big bonus over any home duty machine, but many old ones do not.

If this particular machine is a walking foot machine for heavy weight fabrics as mentioned above, and you intend to use it for making packs and such, it might be a great deal, but you wont be sewing quilts or sil shelters with it. It won't be delicate enough for that.

Adam,

PM inbound

My mileage varies. My Pfaff blah-blah 2023 has much less power than a Viking Emerald 116 that cost under 1/2 the Pfaff. And the Pfaff walking foot has yet to impress me. Ya gotta take your fabrics and thread and step on the pedal yourself–don't let the salesperson do that. Both may stall with Cordura, foam, webbing or coated stuff, but when I help the Viking along by turning the hand wheel, it doesn't suck food down its windpipe, choke and fall out of adjustment like the Pfaff does (!). It'd be nice if I had a really burly motor driving the needle so that I never need help it along, but so far the Viking works. Ditto Bob Gross, for thicker seams, I use needles with sharp points (not ball points nor universal points), sized properly to the thread and fabric AND replace them at the first hint of trouble.
. Machines will totally surprise you at what they can/cannot do. It's almost like today's fancy clothes washing machines, which have tons of electronic circuits and sensors, but don't clean as well as those of 20-30 years ago. The Pfaff 130 of days-gone-by will far outperform many $1000 machines for most of what I do.
. Re: lockstitch. That defines for me what most sewing machines do, vs a chainstitch (see Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockstitch as well as their chain stitch entry). Lock stitch machines have the upper thread form a loop with the lower thread at each needle hole; a basic chain stitch uses one thread & is great for bag closures for bulk products that can be later opened quickly. I don't know if laying several stitches in one place would be as good as backstitching. Better minds abound.
. FWIW, I hate backstitching light fabrics like silnylon, b/c the stuff bunches up. I prefer lifting the needle and the presser foot, moving the material five or six stitches back and re-stitching right over them. I can't avoid making more holes, which can weaken the fabric, but using beefy threads somewhat makes up for that and prevents seam disruption later.

"Babylock sells a bomber machine called the Denim Pro (now named the BL18 selling for around $200.00)"

"a Viking Emerald 116 that cost under 1/2 the Pfaff."

Yipes, sounds like maybe the Pfaff was the wrong purchase. Oh well, live and learn (and pay).

Will check these out. Never saw them on a MYOG thread before. Thanks for posting.