Durability of Downtek?

I did talk to a guy at Golite who said if you use the Grainger's it is supposed to last 10-20 washings. Hmmmm.

That sounds pretty good because how often do you need to wash a down jacket? maybe wipe off the inside lining once in awhile incase you are sweating too much and air it out but you shouldn't have to wash it too much, correct?

Marmot claims their version of this stuff (Down Defender) is good for 20 washings.

Call me a skeptic, but I suspect that the down jacket I washed and treated with Nikwak wash-in DWR is probably the same thing…. I mean, the DWR is going to cling to "individual down plumes at the molecular level" just as much as it's going to cling to nylon fibers of the shell. And I don't even have nano-washer… :)

I have heard of this but how is the wash in stuff for down? Does it affect the loft or durability?

I read on Rabs website that treating a garment with down wash is not nearly as effective as treating down by itself.

I've washed an old Marmot Pinnacle down sleeping bag, first with Nikwax Down Wash, then with Nikwak TX Direct Wash-in DWR treatment. Then dried the bag in a dryer with three tennis balls to fluff it up.

Came out great. I have no problem gathering up down jackets and so forth for this kind of wash once every year or two. The best way is to haul them to a laudromat and use a big commercial front load washer.

@Stephen, I figured it would probably not be as effective. It is just that for Downtek I am looking at either a Golite Bitterroot $200 or a custom from Goosefeet for $300 and possibly a quilt from Tim Marshall. If I can spend only $10 every two years for a treatment that might be a better option for me as I already have a Montbell Down Alpine XXL jacket, a Nunatak Balaclava and a Golite Ultrlight 850 long quilt.

@wcollings, what effect does the wash-in treatment have? Any loft lost? How long does the coating usually last? Is there any damage to the down?

The only effect I have seen with the NikWax TX-Direct wash-in DWR is a very decided increase in the slickness of the outside fabric and water-beading like crazy. It works for previously DWR treated fabric and also works on non-DWR finished fabrics. I've done a down sleeping bag that was ten years old and had lost the water beading on the outer fabric. No problem. Washed up great. Once you are washing a down bag, the DWR treatment is just a second wash cycle. No big deal.

It has to be "nano-coating" the down because the treatment is in the water and the down is getting soaked (if you are patient enough — these fabrics want to float).

How long does it last? I don't know. I mean, I figure I'm only going to wash sleeping bags and outerwear maybe once every season or two, maybe longer. It certainly lasts that long. As a practical matter, I decide to treat something that I've used a lot and then gather up similar stuff to fill a full load in the washer/drier — gloves, hats, etc.

Washing a down bag and then drying it with tennis balls fluffs up the down so much that it's like restoring it to new. I do the drier with tennis balls (on low or fluff air) with down stuff just to fluff up the down from time to time. Works great for down comforters, etc.

I am wondering if any of the DWR is staying on the down and making it somewhat water resistant.

If it missed the down, it would be miracle. When you run a load of wash with the TX-Direct wash-in treatment, EVERYTHING has a distinct feel of "silicone" and crazy water beading. The clothes, the washing machine, your hands…

Anything that is getting wet soaking in that stuff is going to get some DWR treatment.

Thanks! I have a down jacket that I was given for free and I am going to try that out on it tonight and see how the loft handles when it gets wet after being treated.

BTW, I have my doubts that DownTek or DownDefender or any DWR down treatment fundamentally changes the way down behaves in wet conditions. DWR, in general, makes water tend to bead up and run off fabrics, but is not "waterproofing" per se. The DownTek folk only claim that the down plumes absorb 33% less water. That means that, even with treatment, the down is still absorbing 66% of the same water it would without treatment.

I think the best thing you can do for down sleeping bags or clothing is to make sure the DWR treatment of the fabric is fully up to snuff. A good cleaning and wash-in DWR treatment every year or two on an older bag. And, do the drier/tennis ball routine on a more frequent basis to 100% dry the down and fluff it back up.

I generally favor down over synthetic because down can be maintained like new indefinitely with careful washing and treatment. Synthetic, while a little more robust at first, steadily degrades with use and can't be fully restored/fluffed like down can. So a ten year old down bag can be essentially as good as new. Not so for a synthetic bag.

Quite. I am not trying to get waterproofing out of such type treatment but rather being able to have the down retain most of its loft in conditions where the air is wet or from me. The thing is I really can't find many testimonials except from industry people or others who really don't comment on the down properties. Dang.