heel-toe drop on trail runners?

Heel drop makes a shoe more comfortable in the short term but in the long term it's bad. By raising the heel you are shortening the muscles in your legs. I would avoid significant heel rise just like I would avoid significant arch support. Flat zero drop shoes are the best in my experience.

For walking, I dont know how much it matters. Most people have been walking in raised-heel shoes their whole life, and wear them all day every day.

I fully agree that minimal, and zero drop should result in fewer injuries if accustomed to it. However, for just walking I dont think the potential benefits are as great as for distance running.

I enjoy fairly minimal shoes, I like feeling every rock under my foot and being low to the ground.

I get less calf pain using zero-drop shoes. I try to use nothing else.

I think the idea that a raised heel "propels" you is marketing. Salomon used this for the 14mm raised Synapse, and I am calling BS. Your legs were designed for 0-drop over hundreds of thousands of years.

You can still get zero drop with plenty of protection from Brooks and Altra.

If you have never used zero drop or even 4mm drop low support shoes it will take a good year to build up the leg and foot muscles to the same point they were with the high support shoes. Even then if you are going on a lot of scree slopes a more padded shoe may be warrented.

I found for the first hiking season I had significantly more calf pain and stifness then with regular shoes. Doing 100 ecentric heal raises a day the following winter really helped and I havent looked back since.

Yeah, I will say that I built up muscles using Vibrams (and bare feet) for about two years to get to where I am now. I use the Brooks Pure Connect shoes, which have 4mm of drop (very low). I will transition to 0mm when they wear out. I also hike in Vibram FF's.

I wear new balance MT110's and agree with everything everyone else has said. I have the winter version of these shoes too which have a gaiter. As far as drop they have a 4mm but after they have been broken in its basically squished down.

The key is being low to the ground reduces the likelihood of rolling your ankle imho.

Its all preference

Some will claim this or that benefit … The reality is that plenty of people doing stuff use shoes with some drop just fine and arent dying from blown ankles

My favorite shoes are used by quite a few experienced people. The terrocs have 9mm of drop. They use it just fine.

;)

Eric, that same mentality was once used for backpacking. "People carry 30lbs just fine, so why reduce weight?"

There are a lot of studies confirming the benefits of minimalist heel drop. It makes sense from a logical standpoint, too; we're born barefoot. Why would our muscles work better any other way?

I kind of agree..

but then again, i kind of agree with Jen's posts on the subject, that our bones, muscles, etc get shaped and formed to some extent in relation to the shoes we have worn most of our lives.

At the end of the day, it's really going to depend on the individual and what's going on with them.

Eric, that same mentality was once used for backpacking. "People carry 30lbs just fine, so why reduce weight?"

There are a lot of studies confirming the benefits of minimalist heel drop. It makes sense from a logical standpoint, too; we're born barefoot. Why would our muscles work better any other way?

are we talking about running, or just walking?

most of the material ive seen have to do with running minimalist vs. normal shoes … and theres plenty of arguments for and against … just look at the size of the thread i posted in general =P

theres plenty of people who are quite experienced and go for long stretches in shoes with some drop

the great skurka did his alaska-yukon expedition in sportiva fireblades with are supposed to have a 10mm drop …

http://andrewskurka.com/wp-content/uploads/gearlists_alaska-yukon.pdf

the just as great chris townsend used the terrocs in the PNW … these have a 9mm drop

http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2011/09/pacific-northwest-trail-gear-review.html

i doubt either they or the many other users of such shoes feel like they destroying their feet

;)

Drop or no drop isn't going to affect your hiking ability. The concern is with the long term health effects on your feet.

"are we talking about running, or just walking?"

Ryan Jordan made this argument in his article on minimalist shoes. I don't see why it matters if you're running or walking. Personally I find that I appreciate shoes with more cushion when trail running because I'm hitting the ground harder and it's not as easy to avoid stepping on rocks and such. Most of the material you read is focused around running because there are more runners than backpackers and runners are more obsessed with performance.

Thanks for all the comments. This will be my first pair of trail runners as I transition away from heavy boots. I have pretty flat narrow feet, and a gait analysis machine seemed to indicate that I should try a stability shoe.

I was thinking about the Brooks Adrenaline ASR 10. I believe it has a 12mm drop, which sounds high.

The other option was more neutral Saucony Xodus 4 with a 4mm drop.

I am not a runner and would only be using these for hiking and backpacking.

Despite their differences both seem fairly comfortable around the house. Tough decision…

Drop or no drop isn't going to affect your hiking ability. The concern is with the long term health effects on your feet.

Ryan Jordan made this argument in his article on minimalist shoes. I don't see why it matters if you're running or walking. Personally I find that I appreciate shoes with more cushion when trail running because I'm hitting the ground harder and it's not as easy to avoid stepping on rocks and such. Most of the material you read is focused around running because there are more runners than backpackers and runners are more obsessed with performance.

well weve got a few quite high mileage people wandering around these days …

do the ones who dont use minimal drop shoes have health problems?

some of them even frequent this forum … im sure they can chime in

im no expert on those people who walk long distances for a long time … but im quite sure there are a decent amount of them who dont use zero-minimal drop shoes …

ive mentioned two i my above post …

hmmmmmm

;)

Thanks Justin for the shout out earlier…

I so wish people would start recommending shoes like we do packs…sometimes a framed is what you need, some people hate frameless, etc. Or tents vs tarps….etc. Every foot is different, our mechanics our different…heck, when I examine someone for biomechanical problems I don't even really reference "normal" because we don't know what that is. Do you have a problem on your Right foot? No? Alright, then I assume that is YOUR normal and go from there…comparing the L and the R.

Anyway, yes, zero drop and minimalist shoes work really, really well for some people, and yes, a lot of folks should try it. But there are a whole host of people into his world for whom a zero drop, or minimalist, or barefoot shoe will never, ever work.

Should you gradually give it a try? Absolutely! But I'm also very much of the ilk that as far as biomechanics go, if it ain't broke, stop trying to fix it. Our bodies like stasis, don't like change.

Shoes should be all about fit and comfort…if you can walk all day in them and not hurt, then great! Doesn't matter if it's a zero drop or a 12mm…same as packs. If you can wear it and forget about it…it's exactly what you need.