Jun 19, 2007 at 8:22 pm #1223759
@bugbombLocale: South Texas
Companion forum thread to:Jun 20, 2007 at 10:23 am #1392828
@ewolinLocale: Hampton Roads, Virginia
Another reason to buy this great stove: it easily cooked for five in mild weather (with a windscreen of course), and probably could do the same in cold weather.
One minor problem: One of the fuel containers stopped delivering fuel when less than half used up. The o-ring looks a little chewed up…perhaps a bit of it got logded in the feed mechanism somehow. I complained to customer service, and even sent in pictures, but got no action. I guess I should bring it back to where I bought it.
Otherwise I'm very happy with the stove, both for winter and for cooking for a large group. For really large groups they make a fairly heavy two-burner model, the Expedition if I recall.Jun 22, 2007 at 2:56 pm #1393113
Another excellent review article Roger, I have just ordered a Powermax Extreme to add to my fast growing collection, this addiction to backpacking stoves is sending me broke.
About you comment: “The Powermax canister is included in this review because you can't run the Xtreme stove without one;”
I found this screw thread canister adaptor when researching the Powermax stove on the Coleman site. I have ordered one to try.
TonyJun 26, 2007 at 8:04 am #1393500
I love the idea of not having to mess with petrol, especially when my fingers are cold. Given the difficulty of finding the powermax canisters, I have two questions:
Are there any fuel canisters that will work nearly well as the Powermax canisters in cold weather, assuming the cartriges are inverted?
Is there any mail order shop that sells the Powermax canisters? I can't seem to find any locally.The one mail order shop I was able to find wanted an extra $20 as they say UPS will charge extra for handing hazardous materials.
Eric DouglasJun 27, 2007 at 12:47 pm #1393644
Roger, it is getting very hard to find this stove in the states anymore. REI doesn't list it on its site, and I rarely see it in the other outdoor stores where I live (Sacramento, CA.) There is one store close to me that still has the fuel, but not the stove. I suspect that Coleman might be phasing out this stove, which is a shame.Jun 27, 2007 at 3:27 pm #1393665
Hi Eric and Roger,
“Are there any fuel canisters that will work nearly well as the Powermax canisters in cold weather, assuming the cartriges are inverted?”
Any of the 30% propane mix canisters should work nearly as well Powermax is supposed to be 40% propane mix. I have tested a 30/70 inverted canister at -20C with no problems. Roger Caffin’s web site has some PT curves on it that you can look at. (http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Mixtures.htm)
I purchased a Powermax Extreme last week from Moontrail (http://moontrail.com/stoves/colemanexponent_xtreme.php) US$59 free delivery in continental USA, was delivered to my friend yesterday hope to have in OZ soon can’t wait to try it. Powermax canisters are hard to get in OZ so I also purchased a screw canister adaptor from REI.
TonyJun 27, 2007 at 4:46 pm #1393670
I'm sure if they changed the "Coleman" label to North Face, or MSR, and doubled the price, these stoves would sell like hotcakes. And I think you can order them direct from Coleman. At a discount if you have a non-profit connection.Jun 27, 2007 at 6:07 pm #1393673
50 bucks at campmorJun 27, 2007 at 7:08 pm #1393685
"50 bucks at campmor"
Plus $7 shipping costsAug 17, 2007 at 10:50 pm #1399093
> I found this screw thread canister adaptor when researching the Powermax stove on the Coleman site. I have ordered one to try.
Snuffle – they promised to send me one when it became available, but I have yet to see it…
Hum – but as I write this all our mail for the three months we have been away is still at the local mail delivery centre, so maybe a parcel awaits …
Thanks for pic. I will pursue and review.Aug 17, 2007 at 10:56 pm #1399094
> Are there any fuel canisters that will work nearly well as the Powermax canisters in cold weather, assuming the cartriges are inverted?
Coleman say the Powermax stoves will stay on the market, but I agree the canisters are increasingly hard to find in many areas. A Shame!
But they now have an alternative: the Coleman Fyrestorm (Ti). This uses conventional screw-thread canisters. You should look at the Fyrestorm seriously as an alternative if you can't get the Powermax canisters. It works just as as well and has low CO emissions too.
The adapter Tony Beasley shows is an neat alternative if you already have an Xtreme.Aug 18, 2007 at 3:28 am #1399100
Welcome back, I received my Coleman Xtreme stove and adaptor last Saturday, I have fired it up but not tested it properly yet, although it is heavy I like what I see.
TonyFeb 19, 2010 at 3:34 pm #1576034
Regarding the Powermax fuel adapter, does anyone have any field experience at sub zero Fahrenheit (-18C) temperatures?
Standard canisters have a lower percentage of propane in them. I would expect some diminuation of performance at the lower end of an Xtreme's temperature range, but I wonder however if it's appreciable. Anyone done any really cold wx tests with an adapter?
HJFeb 20, 2010 at 1:31 pm #1576408
What matters is not the canister but the fuel – and whether you operate the canister in liquid feed mode or not.
CheersFeb 23, 2010 at 12:30 pm #1577591
Thank you, Roger.
From what you're saying, even at very cold temperatures, the stoves will show no performance differences between Powemax and standard canisters.
I was thinking that the vapor pressure might fall low enough inside a standard canister (with less propane) that it couldn't continue to force out liquid.
HJJan 28, 2011 at 2:12 am #1689280
I'm wondering if you might have an estimate as to how many ml a 300g Powermax canister might be able to hold. I'm doing some write ups right now on stoves, and I'm trying to compare the weight of a Simmerlite to the weight of an Xtreme. The Simmerlite of course can't function without a bottle, so I want to include the weight of the bottle. The question is, which size bottle would make a fair comparison? I'm thinking the 22oz (~0.6 l) is about the same size as a 300g Powermax canister, but I'm not sure.
I'm wondering if you have an old 300g sized Powermax canister laying around that you could pop the top off of and pour some water into and see how much water fits.
Why, yes, I am crazy. Why ever do you ask? lol.
HJJan 28, 2011 at 2:23 am #1689281
Hey Jim, 300g is about 11oz (10.5821oz.) Gram is mass, Liter is volume.Jan 28, 2011 at 2:33 am #1689284
drowning in spamMember
Since Jim asked for mL, we need to know the density. A very quick look shows the density to be about 60% of water, so 300 grams would be ~420 mL.Jan 28, 2011 at 2:45 am #1689286
about 15oz for 420gram. Soo, basically he is stuck with a 22oz bottle.
As far as I know, the only certified fuel bottles for a presurized stove are the 11oz and 22oz bottles. I may be out of touch, though.
I haven't used my Simmerlite for many years except for base camping…just too innefficient. One of the worst stoves out there for fuel consumprion. I could never get it to do better than ~.45oz/qt.Jan 28, 2011 at 2:59 am #1689288
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
Measure the can and fudge a bit for the domed end and the thickness of the shell. The rest is just calculating the area of a cylinder.
REI lists the size of the canister as 2.6 x 5.3 inches.
The volume of a cylinder is pi x radius squared x height. The radius of 2.6 is 1.3, and squared is 1.69, soooo, 3.14 x 1.69 x 5.3 = 28.12498 cubic inches. According to the Google converter, that is 460.885847 ml. I would take 10%-15% for the dome shape and the thickness of the walls, so it is about 400ml.Jan 28, 2011 at 3:46 am #1689291
drowning in spamMember
James, no, you're confusing liters for grams. You can only get away with that when you're dealing with water.Jan 28, 2011 at 4:27 am #1689294
Or allowing for density as was already done. That was how the 300g got converted to ~400ml or so. It doesn't really matter. There should be enough info for making a decision.
Anyway, the choice remains 11oz bottle or 22oz bottle. For saftey considerations, the bottle should be able to be pressureized for the stove. Optimus, Primus, Brunton, Trangia, and a few others are the only bottles I know of. All are 11oz or 22oz by English measurements. Jim had mentioned a 22oz bottle, so I assumed thats what he wanted…11oz, 22oz or 32oz. 22oz is the bottle that fits his criteria, given room in the bottle for pumping. Likely the MSR 22oz is what he will end up with, at a guess.Jan 28, 2011 at 8:10 am #1689346
Wow, thanks guys for all the calculations.
Yes, I want to know the capacity in milliliters of the 300g sized Powermax canister. Liquid fuel bottles are measured in milliliters (or fluid oz, but I prefer ml), so in order to do a proper comparison, I want to know how many ml would fit into a 300g sized Powermax canister. I thought someone might have any empty lying about and they could pour in some water. I didn't think people would be up for the math, but I was wrong.
Sounds like my gut feeling that a ~0.6l sized (22 fl oz) is the right one for comparative purposes. Both an empty MSR liquid fuel bottle and an empty 300g sized Powermax canister weigh three ounces based on information gleaned from REI's website and Roger's Xtreme review, respectively. So, the weight of the containers is essentially a wash between the two. I believe the weight of "white" gasoline (Coleman fuel) and the propane/isobutane/butane blend in the Powermax canister would also be a wash, although I haven't tested that belief. Am I off here?
A Simmerlite with it's pump weighs 9 oz (per REI.com). An Xtreme weighs 11 oz (per Roger's review). If the weight of the containers with fuels is essentially a wash, then the Simmerlite works out to be 2 oz lighter than the Xtreme. I'm a little surprised by that. Did I miss anything in my reasoning?
James, interesting that the Simmerlite is so inefficient. I haven't taken into consideration the efficiency of either stove yet. It would seem like the Simmerlite would have to be grossly inefficient to wind up being heavier overall than the Xtreme.
HJJan 28, 2011 at 9:17 am #1689377
No. The 22oz bottle works. The pumping needs some space to expand into, else you get really bursty pressure until you burn down about half the fuel. It runs best at about 1/2 to nearly empty.
The trouble with the Simmerlite is that it does not simmer well. It it does not take a low heat setting without a lot of fiddling.
I have tried 40 pumps, 3 pumps and everything in between. On less than three pumps, it starts hard. The fuel will pour into the cup but not heat the preheat coil all that well. In high, it really pours out the BTU. This means a lot of heat lost to the outside air, unless you are cooking for a large group with a large pan (6qt, 10in or larger.) For solo or paired hiking, it burns wastefully. Even with the heat screen and reflector, a lot of heat is lost. Maybe it is just the one I have, though, I actually tried two of them. A friends ran about the same so, I didn't bother to run tests in it.
The most efficient WG stove I have run was the old SVEA. In a lab, I got .17-.18oz per liter (averaged over 10 runs, best was .13.) In the field, closer to .26-.33. The Simmerlite gave about .43(2 runs) in a lab and about .55 in the field(4 runs.) Even the Whisperlite gave somewhat better results at .42 in the field (3 runs.)
(In Lab: Water temp 50F, air temp 68F, no wind under a hood, of course.)
That said, both units have their place. For longish canoe trips or hiking trips, I bring my SVEA. It saves weight compared to other stoves and does a decent job for two. But at 4700BTU it is too small for larger groups. For three or four people, the Simerlite is much easier.
My old Whisperlite blew the guts out of the pump. For a week, we cooked over the fire. I got the Simmerlite instead. But, it was worse at cooking on low than the Whisperlite.
I don't have a Coleman Xtreme or any canister stove. The fuel density is slightly higher than WG…I believe around 19000BTU for WG, 20000 for gasoline and 20500 for blended Isobutane/propane. Give or take, depends on the actual blende and will vary from batch to batch. I think the canisters are better than WG is for QC, though.
I usually carry my fuel in a PET bottle (.5oz) so, after adding in for canister weights it is a wash on the two fuels. I use WG + SVEA. It's a lot cheaper for fuel costs…personal preference…I am usually broke.Jan 28, 2011 at 12:58 pm #1689447
Thanks for your post; lot's of good info.
Yeah, the Simmerlite might be light but it certainly doesn't simmer. The Marketing Dept. must have come up with that name. What a misnomer.
The really old (pre shaker-jet) Whisperlites can actually achieve a decent simmer if you know what you're doing. The geometry of their pre-heat loop is different; it's closer to the flame so that the fuel still vaporizes well even at low flame.
Yeah, WG is way cheap. If I'm doing a lot of stuff with stoves, like brewing up for big groups (10+), I bust out the WG.
Hey, so how does your Svea 123 do in wind? Yeah, it has a windscreen, kind of, but it's not really effective. I'm very hesitant to use an external windscreen on my Svea 123 because if they overheat, things get really ugly. I guess if you were really attentive you might be able to get away with it, just like using a windscreen on a canister stove. What are you using if anything in the way of a windscreen on yours?
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