gore-tex

"It seems like Gore-tex lets some moisture through from outside after a while."

The only way water can get through the gortex laminet is through a hold in the laminet. Water will not get through an undamaged laminet.

"At the same time, high aerobic activities produce too much sweat to be evaporated through membrane anyway."

Many people think a jacket is leaking when it is just condensation.

Keep in mind the gortex we have today is not the same material that existed in the 70's. Gor found that if you took a sheat of Teflon and streatched it a lot of microscopic holes would open up. The holes were too small to let water through but water vapor would pass right through. A light breeze would also push air through the membrane. The original Gortex was vapor and air permeable. However over time body oils would build up in the holes in the membrane and washing would not get it out. Eventually the original Gortex would stop breathing and sometimes the oil would pull water through the fabric getting the person wet.

Gor solved the problem by coating the streatched teflon with a very very thin layer of polyurethane. This prevented body oils from getting into the microscopic holes. Unfortunately it reduced the breathability and prevented air from passing through. Over time they have released a series of new and improved Gortex fabric with "improved breathaility" they have basically been trying to get back to where they were with the original fabric without the durability issues. also many of their patents have expired so others can now make their own versions streatched teflon membranes.

Since then Event fabric has apeared. Microscopically Event looks just like the original Gortex membrane. The only difference is that the teflon has been modified in a way that prevents oil from sticking to it. washing Event is now effective in getting body oil out. Event is vapor and air permiable while Gortex today is not. The difference between the two is noticeable.

For me Gortex is no longer worth it. I recently replaced my old gortex jacket with a Event one and I am not disappointed.

Note Gortex used A very thin polyurethane layer on the teflon. The Marmont Precip pants don't have the teflon layer but have a much thicker layer of polyurethane (without the Teflon polyurethane needs to be thicker to be durable). While it is breathable, it is not nearly as breathability as very thin layer in Gortex. Since most people doth sweat that much on the legs, the Marmont pants feal like thay are working better than they actually are.

The new Gore-tex Pro apparently has no monolithic PU layer (which should presumably make it somewhat air permeable now but who knows?)

regardless of the "breathability"

note also that

– 3 layer gore (and others) is more durable generally

– the precip and other marmots have a well known issue with delamination, a simple google search will show tons of cases … i suspect quite a few 2.5 layers will have issues as well

– gore has a separate warranty … so you are doubly covered … IMO warranty is key when buying a WPB, as there is a good chance youll get delamination

;)

I guess, I am not tuned in on the number of layers in my Gore-tex. I have a very light Arcteryx Gore-tex jacket from 2008, which has dark gray slightly shiny interior (looks rubbery to me). What is that fabric? I think it was called "paclite". I wear shell so infrequently, that despite being 5 years old, that jacket is practically new. It is DWR apparently, but of course wets out on the outside under pack shoulder straps. Otherwise I can't tell whether it leaks or it is just condensation, I suspect condensation, after a few hours in light rain.

My Marmot Precip pants are even older and very beat up from glissading down peak slopes, wearing in bush in desert, falling on rocks, etc. There are holes and delamination here and there, but they still work, love them. I wear them as the only pants on a hike, whenever it's cold, windy or rainy or I need skin protection.

So, I guess warranty issues are not really a big deal for me.

***

So, what's ultralight state of the art for rain shells? How about just using a synthetic puffy and a poncho for real rain?

Is it time to replace my Arcteryx with a newer one? I think mine is Beta LT or something like.