Sep 22, 2013 at 1:55 pm #1307922
Ordered a new MontBell Thermawrap Pro (Men's Medium) and was disappointed to discover that it's heavier than the older model (maybe 2 years old) that my wife has. It's nearly 18 oz on my scale.
That said, I'm thinking of returning it and replacing with something else. I'm considering the Patagonia Nano Puff (on sale at Backcountry.com, and I know my sizing in Patagonia gear.) Any feedback on these? They seem to be same amount of insulation (60g.)
Anything else I should consider? I'd prefer a hood, but not required. Link to the jacket I purchased:Sep 22, 2013 at 2:08 pm #2027059Sep 22, 2013 at 2:12 pm #2027061
Interesting – I didn't catch the distinction between the "pro" and regular versions. Looks like there's no lightweight hooded Thermawrap anymore?Sep 22, 2013 at 2:22 pm #2027062Sep 22, 2013 at 2:27 pm #2027066
The Thermawrap Pro parka uses 80g/m2 I believe, so there's some extra weight there.
Extra 40% off Backcountry outlet (clearance) using coupon code save40 if they got your size for the sale price.Sep 22, 2013 at 3:01 pm #2027081
Eugene SmithBPL Member
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
The Thermawrap PRO seems more comparable, on paper, to the Arcteryx Atom SV hoody which I found to be very warm for the weight. So at 18oz, the Thermawrap pro packs a lot into those extra ozs. The older Thermawrap was 50g, so not as warm.
If you're looking for a lighter synth hoody in the 60g range, check out the Atom LT, which is 13oz. I prefer the Atom LT to the Nanopuff for several reasons, one being overall fit and finish. The Nanopuff is boxier in cut and the box stitching that holds the primaloft one in place tends to fray fairly quickly in the chest and arms from use. Both are really good synthetic layering pieces, I just find the Arcteryx to be a little more polished overall. Atom LT also packs down into a smaller package for storage in a pack, but not by much. If you can find the Nano in your size at a considerable discount, you can't really go wrong with it as a light weight synth parka.Sep 22, 2013 at 3:13 pm #2027087
I wish I never read these posts… Nothing but trouble…
@lunchandynner — thanks for the code — it worked.Sep 22, 2013 at 3:14 pm #2027088
2 notes …
– the atom sv has 100g/m coreloft vs. 80g/m exceloft ….
– the atom LT has the breathable panels in the side which affects the "warmth" for static situations
;)Sep 22, 2013 at 3:28 pm #2027091
Thanks, Eugene. In general, Patagonia stuff fits me better than ArcTeryx (I have wide shoulders relative to my chest size) so the "boxy" fit works pretty well.
I'll try to check one out in person.Sep 22, 2013 at 3:29 pm #2027092
Agreed! I'm starting to think I should keep the Thermawrap pro and get a lighter non hooded pullover for the summer…Sep 22, 2013 at 4:19 pm #2027107Sep 22, 2013 at 5:57 pm #2027132
Plug for the Atom SV, I freakin' love it.
:)Sep 22, 2013 at 8:25 pm #2027179
I went the more cheaper route with a MH Thermostatic hooded jacket. Just got it last week so haven't tried it out yet, however it's supposed to get down into the mid 30s where I'll be doing an overnight this coming weekend so I'll see how it does.
Got mine new for $90 at BergsSkishop.com . I think they have an extra large and a small left (I bought a medium so I can layer under, but the sleeve length is more like a small, which is perfect for me but not so much for taller people).
It's 60g/m2 of MH's thermic micro (2013 uses their newer Thermal Q stuff) and the medium jacket with tags and labels still on weighs 10.2 oz on my scale, so pretty good for a full zip hooded jacket.Sep 22, 2013 at 10:32 pm #2027199
remember that a lot of these proprietary brands, we dont know the clo values of the insulation
PL1 – 0.92
PL Sport – 0.79
PL Eco – 0.68
Exceloft – 0.68 back a few years ago … who knows if its been updated
coreloft – dead bird claims its within "5% of PL1", but they refuse to release any real specs or tests as far as i know … who knows
thermic micro and other brands – no one knows, manufacturers refuse to tell you
so basically all other things being equal, a 100g/m pl1 jacket will be 70% more insulative than an 80g/m montbell jacket, assuming the old exceloft insulative value
now of course other things such as the fit and construction matter …
but unless you find a jacket VERY CHEAP, dont put up with insulation no one really knows the value of …
marketing departments want to confuse you and stop you from comparing against their competitiors …
;)Sep 23, 2013 at 12:02 am #2027216
Very good point, Eric. Wish all the companies would list the Clo values of their insulation, but we can assume none of the house brand insulation is close to PL1, because if it was close or higher, they'd be advertising that like crazy.
Also wish down fill weight and product weight for each size would be listed. I like how GoLite lists how much fill is in their down products up front.Sep 23, 2013 at 7:23 am #2027257Sep 23, 2013 at 9:03 am #2027288
Anybody have an opinion on warmth of tw pro vrs alpine light parka (which I own)?Sep 23, 2013 at 10:54 am #2027320
Ethan A.BPL Member
@mountainwalkerLocale: SF Bay Area & New England
Ian you might have the 2012 Montbell Thermawrap Pro jacket – the 2013 is supposed to be a few ounces lighter like the pre-2012 Montbell Thermawrap Hoody which is excellent warmth for the weight, with 80g insulation throughout and a highly wind-resistant shell fabric (as Dave Chenault noted in an article, the shell material plays a big role in the warmth of synthetic insulation jackets, as does other factors like cut/fit). Montbell was selling both at the same time until just recently.
For a great overview of synthetic insulation jackets, check out: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/12/synthetic-insulation-60g-to-100g.html
Dane says he found the Montbell Thermawrap Pro Hoody even warmer than the Arcteryx Atom SV, though I was surprised by that. The 2013 Thermawrap Pro Hoody and the older Thermawrap Hoody are both a few ounces lighter than the Atom SV.
I'd love to hear from someone else in addition to Dane who has tried the current 2013 Thermawrap Pro Hoody, Atom SV Hoody and Rab Alpine Generator Jacket (listed from lightest to heaviest).Sep 23, 2013 at 11:26 am #2027330
no doubt theres other things that matter other than the value of the insulation ….
but then i never hear on BPL "hey this jacket only has 650 fill down and less down to boot, but it fits me better, feels warm and has a better shell than that 900 fill down jacket, so ill pay the same price"
what you DO hear is "OMG OMG OMG that 650 down filled jacket is like $30 at costco, hell of a screaming deal, its not 900 fill down, but for that price i dont give a dammn !!!"
its interesting how its different for synthetics … i take it as a sign that the marketing departments campaign of withholding REAL information as working
;)Sep 23, 2013 at 11:58 am #2027339
Dustin ShortBPL Member
Eric, I agree with you on most points, especially on the discrepancy between price, spec, value of synthetics and down on this forum.
I will say this though, Dane over at coldthistle has been playing around with new montbell clothing and he's been surprised by the warmth of the garments. He unscientifically claims that for their lower weight/area rating they still stack up well against PLone. That is their 50g/m2 ~ to a 60g/m2 and 80~90 and so forth. I tend to trust that guy since he spends so much time out of the "lab" testing gear.
I tend to just lump synthetics into the category of "I'll be colder or heavier, but I have more insurance if weather turns gnarly" and then stick with the 10oz, 16oz, and "heavy" weight classes for choosing synthetics (not too different from my down criteria actually).
As long as your moving enough you don't get cold ;)Sep 23, 2013 at 12:20 pm #2027351Sep 23, 2013 at 12:36 pm #2027358
my my my … how weve forgotten about the infamous 30 dollah costco down poofay already
;)Sep 23, 2013 at 12:41 pm #2027362Sep 23, 2013 at 12:50 pm #2027363
the atom lt has fleece side panels …
it removes some insulation for it …
also the thermawrap pro is 80gm vs 60 gm …. even assuming the dead bird is 10% within PL1 … and that montbell hasnt updated their insulation the last few years …. the montbell would be theoretically "warmer"
now compare it against something in a similar overall weight like the atom SV … and it might be different
dont get me wrong … other things matter, especially fit … snug means warmer
but then i dont see BPLers applying the same standard for down jackets … where they obsess over the down fill power AND the amount of fill, and the baffling, etc ….
buy synth cheap IMO … cause unless its one of the known insulation types, its a box of chocolates, no one really knows how well it insulates … and youll wear it out regardless
it aint something to pass down to your kids
;)Sep 23, 2013 at 12:58 pm #2027368
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