Gear to protect against THE most deadly backcountry beastie…

Ticks don't bite everyone – why I don't know. I happen to be one of those lucky people that ticks don't like. At least ticks in the Northwest – never hiked in Penciltucky so I don't know about those tiny deer ticks.

That's interesting Mina–i'm also curious about sulfur as i have sulfur powder that's just sitting around.

Also what could "possibly" work is diatamaceous earth (i'm not saying for people to go out and try it!). It works by mechanical action to kill many insects. If the insects involved have any kind of exoskeleton outer, the sharp/abrasive silica shards will cut/abrade it up and the insects die by loss of fluids.

Problem is, how would one keep it on them in any quantity to be effective. Carrying around a little baggy and dusting oneself with it periodically could possibly work, but be really inconvenient. Also wouldn't work too well if lot's of sweat or rain is involved.

Zorg, i'm wondering if your diet is perhaps different or unusual in any way compared to the average? Do you eat a lot of spices, a lot of garlic, much less sugar, etc, etc, etc. I'm curious that if your statement is true, if there is anything diet related to that notion. I've experimented a bit with eating a crap ton of garlic a few days in a row before going out in the woods and finding mosquitoes liking me less than usual.

"When I was a kid in the 1950's and 60's, at camp they used to put powdered sulfur in a sock and dust our ankles (like a powder puff) with it, for ticks and chiggers. I think it worked. I haven't seen that in a long time. Did sulfur turn out to be bad stuff for this?"

Interesting. I googled this, and found a couple of things.

Some people eat sulfur as a way to repel ticks: http://www.motherearthnews.com/natural-health/repel-ticks-sulfur-remedy.aspx#axzz2fRqtuFUV

And another that talks about the sulfur in a sock trick (though they say it probably doesn't work as well as deet/permethrin): http://www.lsonews.com/hunting-news/2903-craig-nyhus

I knew a guy who ran the kennels for a big fox hunt in Virginia. He added sulfur and dried garlic to the dog food and said none of the foxhounds ever got ticks. This is for a pack of fifty hounds who lived essentially outdoors year round. My dog picked up twenty ticks on one day trip in the spring not far from the same area.

Went to the Ozarks a few years ago over Memorial Day weekend. Wow was it hot and miserable, ticks everywhere…I was picking so many off of myself (in places i dont want to think about having ticks…clothing be damned) and my dog I couldn't stand it. We ended up hiking out early because the weather and the bugs were so awful we just weren't having a good time.

My dog is treated year round with advantix II, uber expensive but works very well. Except on this trip he had a bunch still attached…but they were obviously dying.

That Tuesday evening, I came home from work to find literally HUNDREDS of dead, partially inflated ticks on my white ceramic kitchen floor – the tiles were absolutely blanketed in dead ticks. FYI, in case you were wondering, it is NOT a good idea to run over partially engorged ticks with a vacuum……

We both tested negative for Lyme.

Apologize for the disgusting thread drift, but I'm procrastinating on finishing this lecture I'm trying to write. This seemed more entertaining.

Wow……

(you made me almost speechless, quite a feat)

Hey Delmar,
If you find a tick embedded on you, try to save it in a ziploc bag and take it to your doctor to be tested for Lyme, even before any symptoms appear. I have been bitten by ticks that have tested positive for Lyme and was able to get treatment right away. Another family member of mine developed what looked like a spider bite–a big swollen red and purple area on her foot, and then got a 104* fever. No bullseye rash; and nobody ever saw the culprit. We asked our doctor to refer her for a blood test–and she tested positive for Lyme and was put on 60 days of antibiotics because of the high levels already in her blood.

I always carry a "Tick Key" in my first aid kit now–I think it's the best way to remove the whole tick. Brian Green did a recent post about cutting one down to minimal size. http://briangreen.net/2013/09/micro-tick-key-hacking-size.html

I use cedar oil on my dog for ticks. Seems to work well. But you have to get a cedar oil made for dogs/humans – not all cedar oils are the same.

One of the things I'm learning as I research this, is that the nymph does most of the infecting, and they're so small (the size of a poppy seed) they're difficult to even find. How am I supposed to find a poppy-seed-sized bug on my scalp? So I'm less confident about a self-inspection being the primary line of defense. This discussion is moving me more into the permethrin camp. (Or possibly into Rex's nudist camp.)

Well Delmar, let's be efficient here, if you're going to go the nudist route, then you got have a shaved head and everything else.

I drink a lot strong black coffee, otherwise I'm your standard overweight AARP-aged American male. I get ticks on me, but I have never ever been bit. If there is something unique about my diet I don't know what it is.

Delmar, luckily they aren't so bad in California, in my experience. I have heard of some people getting covered in specific places but I almost never get them. I have been walking off trail through dense grasslands in shorts for years now and I've only gotten a few.
Lymes disease isn't as common in California, however I did talk to a guy who got it from a tick while hiking on the central coast.

I'm fairly certain I caught the two I was treated for before or close to the mythical 24 hour mark- according to doctors, you can't be infected within that time period. Both times I got the bullseye mark which can be an indicator- not a guarantee you have it. I save the ticks always for testing. I have been treated twice as a precautionary measure (doctor's words). I've had numerous ticks in my life- many as a child romping thru the woods before we knew about Lyme disease. My mother had a tested-and-confirmed case of Lyme from a tick on my property. Kaiser gave her a similar treatment to what I received.
It's definitely nothing to mess around with.

"I was reading a copy of Backpacking mag today; it had an article of the number of people killed each year by type of animal or insect (in the US? North America?). The biggest "killer" in the wilds, by a long shot, was ticks (lyme disease)."

Delmar, can you find the issue of Backpacking? Don't get me wrong – ticks are one of my least favorite living creatures and lyme disease is well worth avoiding – but according to most sources, lyme disease is very rarely if ever fatal.

Thanks,

Bill S.

PS – Regular inspection and tick removal tends to be my main strategy, but when that's impractical, I go for permethrin-treated clothing to improve my odds.

> Delmar, can you find the issue of Backpacking?

It was the shelf copy at the local library. Normally I'd assume it was a current issue, but I didn't look. The cover featured the topic of survival, or "The Survival Issue," and each letter of the alphabet was given some sort of survival writeup.

Regards lyme being rarely fatal, I agree…the fatalities were low for being killed by bears, mtn lions, and snakes, too. One of the things that interested me was how relatively risk free hiking really is. Compared to, say, driving the freeway, or walking in downtown Los Angeles after nightfall.

Still, I want to avoid Lyme's if I can.

I live in Connecticut and hike here regularly. I've had Lyme three times. My wife has had it once. Contrary to the fear- most people see a bullseye rash, take antibiotics and never have any long-term problems. I have a few first hand comments and recommendations:

1. The easiest way to get Lyme is from your dog. They bring the ticks in the house and then they get you. Use frontline or some other tick repellent on your dog. I've never been bit while backpacking but have only contracted Lyme at home.

2. Look for the rash. Doesn't show up every time but its the best indication if you have it. Catching it early is important. The rash is a red ring or bullseye.

3. Ay flu like symptoms after hiking should not be ignored. By the time you get joint pain it's been in your system for weeks or months. I've always had a flu like feeling that comes and goes. Not consistent.

4. Have your doctor test for it. Insist. Don't take no for an answer. It's an easy quick blood test.

Also, I think a lot of other problems and illnesses are blamed on Lyme. It's not well understood or studied.

Hope this helps someone someday.

Having Lyme had been in the back of my mind after an onslaught of weird symptoms hit me in 2009. I began to seriously consider it one year ago after numerous Dr visits/tests ruled out other more likely culprits. I was diagnosed with it earlier this month. It is theorized that I've had it since 2003 and not impossible that I've had it since the 80's or even 70's, given my history with tick exposure…even though, up until 2003, I had not been exposed to the only type of ticks that are said to carry it.

I have researched Lyme to death, trying to understand. It's highly controversial with much disagreement even within the medical field. The bottom line, from the scientists who study Lyme and its coinfections, is that, like David above said, it's a poorly understood disease….and it's difficult to diagnose with current testing procedures.

The measures I personally take is to do a physical tick check on my shoes and legs every few minutes if walking through grass and/or brush…when ticks are most prevalent in my locale. Seems I typically pick them up on my shoes or lower pants legs and they go up. Wearing light colored pants creates a contrast making it much easier for the eye to see them. Deer ticks are smaller than the ones I'm typically exposed to though and much more difficult to feel and/or see. Glad I'm not hiking regularly in their environments!

I wish a new vaccine would be developed.

I “cowboy camped” (no shelter) in grass a few months ago. Overnight, I got eaten alive.

These little guys were all over the place.

I don’t normally have a problem, but then I’ll go on a particular trail, one that I’ve been on a dozen times before with no problem, and I’ll find them. It seems like they’re very cyclical, at least in my area (Southern California).

The one place I’ve consistently been bit is Henry Coe State Park. At each of the last two GGG’s, I’ve picked up a tick. The first year, one got me incredibly fast: I was hiking in, brushed up against a branch at shoulder height, and one got in through my shirt sleeve’s cuff. The more typical pattern is the “crawl up the leg” routine. I was totally thrown off guard by one coming in so high up.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

What kind of tick is that? I've never seen one like that.

Yeah, neither had I. It’s a soft bodied tick. I didn’t know such a thing existed — until I got devoured. Apparently they can carry disease but don’t carry Lyme disease.

There are so many freaking varieties of ticks!! Argh.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

I'm not a pro antibiotic sorta guy. However, given what I know about ticks now –the many possible nasty things they can spread, and how little is actually known– I'd be taking a short term round of antibiotics if I knew I had been bitten. I could be a little biased though….

I didn’t take a round (minimal insurance at the time) of antibiotics. This type of tick is not known to carry Lyme disease though.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

But what do they carry? Everyone's heard about Lyme. There's a whole lot more that ticks can carry though…and far more questions. I've gotten the impression that no tick studying scientist would throw caution to the wind with a tick bite. Just say'n…:-)