Stoves in the European Alps

Hola Miguel

Take your SnowPeak. I suppose you land at Zurich or Geneva Airport. You will find in this towns easily cannisters (i.e. zurich mainstation: just opposite the rail 3 at Hajik-Store). In most greater sportshops you find also cannisters. And besides: I guess you will enjoy the tight grid of served SAC-huts and restaurants…

If you need advice: marc-at-vax-dot-ch

greatings from switzerland

marc

Thank you Marc (soll ich Deutsch sprechen? Lange habe ich Deutsch nicht gesprechen, aber ich denke daß gleich wird Alles anders…). Just knowing that I can simply use my Snow Peak is great. One less worry! (^J^)/" From the sound of it the Alps operate very similarly to the Japan Alps.

I'll be arriving in Zürich, via Thai Airlines. I guess coming from Tokyo the prices are not going to shock me too much, but still, I'm worried about how expensive Switzerland is going to be. Any advice on where to start out in Zürich?

I'll contact you through your email address.

Thanks again!

I understand, Miguel. A major medical emergency in the hinterlands of Central Asia would be no joke. The mountains of Europe have their definite charms and doing something like the Haute Route is something that everyone should try once in their lives. It is going fast due to glacial recession with parts of the classic route now being impossible—-variations now have to be done. Perhaps Marc can chime in with current logistics or suggest something better and a bit less peopled. Switzerland is beautiful—personally, I like Ticino Canton, hard up against Italy. It's all cheaper than London or Tokyo prices!

Hope you get to sample more than the Alps—-there's much to explore in the mountains of Europe, as you know.

Marc gave you sound advice re. canister stoves.

Thanks for the advice Kevin. It’s really amazing how much experience you have. I’m envious. Wish I had made more effort to get to the world’s mountains when I was younger. Now I have to try to catch up in the latter part of my life!

I’ve walked in the mountains in Scotland (Glen Coe is unforgettable), England, Norway, Spain (Picos de Europa), Germany (well, not really mountains…)… and that’s it. There are so many places that I want to go but there’s not enough money or time, and without advice from others I have no idea where to start or which places are better than others. I love the mountains in Japan but am getting a little antsy to get out of Japan. I am also considering the Transylvanian Mountains, the High Tatras, the mountains of northern Sweden and Norway, the mountains of Turkey, central Spain, Poland, the Altai mountains, etc. etc.

Your suggestion for the route through Ticino Canton sounds interesting, especially since I also want to spend some time in northern Italy.

Below is s photo of my wife bicycling along the Rallerweg in Norway, from our six-month honeymoon bicycling around Europe:

Yeah, I've been around. Life is short.

Begin with this site to whet your appetite further for Ticino.
http://www.hiking-in-switzerland.com/Switzerlandhiking-Graubuenden.html
I haven't done long multi-day trips in this region but there is scope to connect up the myriad shorter routes.

I also did a bicycle tour in Ticino, once, to see all the wonderous Modernist houses built by various famous architects before their reputations blossomed.

Altais— Probably too remote.
Turkey has some great ranges—but again, they may be a bit too remote for your comfort zone. The Taurus ranges I've been to—-now I know why they were a serious obstacle to transportation throughout history.
A distant German cousin thinks the mountains of Bulgaria are amazing. He's been to more places than I and he did the bulk of his travels as an E. German!

It's frustrating having diabetes enter my life just as I was starting to get comfortable in traveling in more remote places. I still dream of going to places that take some effort to get to. I've never been to a place that was more than a day's drive from human habitation. The furthest I've been was Moosehead Lake in Maine, and even that had people camping right nearby (with loud radios no less!). With my not taking good care of myself for the last few years I'm paying for it now and have to slowly gain back my strength and confidence. Two weekends ago I went for a hike and the problems with the diabetes caused such bad cramps in my legs that I had to use trees to hobble off the mountain. I've started a serious exercise routine since then and hope that by August I will be able to go for a good hike again. I guess I just have to do first things first, and not try to go too out of the way until I am ready.

I'm curious about what work you do; several times you mentioned design projects. I used to be an architect and, while working at a university teacher teaching English now, I also work as an illustrator and graphic designer. So… you love the Modernists? I'm in the Lloyd Wright and Gaudi camp, myself.

Bulgaria… hey, stop making my mouth water for yet more wondrus places! I'll never get anything planned that way!

Miguel, I do interior design in both the residential and commercial sectors and general industry consultation work. I used to be an architectural photographer, as well.
My influences are eclectic—-I'm crazy about Japanese design (traditional as well as modern), but particular influences include Aalto, Barragan, Kahn, & Rossi. I respect Wright and I love Gaudi's Park Güell.

I'm currently working on an exhibition series for a science museum focusing on technology and science in the late Renaissance. Busy, busy, busy. No long trips until late August.

I love Aalto and Barragan, was forced to study Kahn at my university (University of Oregon, where half the professors had worked under Kahn, lucky blokes), and personally really love Carlo Scarpa. Would love to see his cemetary and Olivetti Headquarters designs!

I tried my hand at architectural photography, but just didn't enjoy it. I prefer nature photography. The end of my architectural photography career came after doing an interior shoot for a client and all my negatives came out black. Still can't figure out what went wrong. You can imagine the embarrassment! Especially since she was a really gorgeous woman who had showed an interest in me personally! (•v•;)?

Your museum project sounds very exciting! Museums are always a lot of fun to work on. Good luck with getting the ideas worked out quickly and the way you like them to be.

Whereabouts are you heading in August?

I'm corresponding with Marc right now and maybe he can also give some good suggestions. I'll take a good look at Ticino. I think I might try Ladakh next year, and in the next five years I hope to be ready to start on my hoped for round-the-world bicycle tour, which I've been dreaming of doing since I was 17.

I'm envious of the travelling … my first degree was in English & Fine Arts, and I was starting a career as a curator (and studying museum management post-grad) when I decided to switch to law. But I'll probably pick up my Fine Art studies again once I'm back in Australia (which will be quite soon).

Interestingly my old law firm in Australia would pay for post-grad studies and actually suggested that instead of doing an LL.M I should "do something interesting". I don't think my current employer would be that open-minded.

Miguel: Cannister ("Gaskartusche" auf Deutsch) stoves can be used everywhere here without problems, you'll find them in every outdoor store here. Esbit and alcohol work great also, gas is no problem but likely to be to heavy.
Note that camping and any fires (including stoves) are illegal in most parts of Europe, except Scandinavia. Camping is allowed in the Bavarian Alps, as long as you're far enough away from huts ands streets. In parts of France they even use helicopters to check whether there's no one camping, especially in the Mont Blanc region. But don't care to much about it, "wo kein Klaeger, da kein Richter" – as long as nobody finds you camping out there…

Don't hesitate to contact me if you need help with planning your trip to Austria or Germany!

M.—- Nothing too exotic—-I'm thinking a thru-hike variation of the Roper High Route in the Sierra—-largely off trail. I scouted a few sections of these variations over the last couple of years and now I want to link them up. UL style.

Thanks Valentin for the advice. I know that cannisters can be found, it’s just I’m worried if the SnowPeak GigaPower stove cannisters can be found. In my six month travels in northern Europe I used a Blue Gaz stove everywhere and never had a problem with getting cannisters. But they are big and heavy and I want to travel UL.

In my 6 month tour I camped every day for six months, usually in established campsites, but often wild, too. Never once had a problem. I’m basing my idea of how to do the trip on an online journal of the Tour de Mont Blanc that I read two years ago. The author camped for most of the trip, so I expect I shall be able to do the same.

If I end up going into Austria and Germany I’ll definitely contact you. Thanks for the offer of help!

Damien, it’s weird how life has you spinning and turning in all different directions, isn’t it? Who’d have thought I’d be back in Japan teaching English after all that work and money preparing to work as an architect? Don’t envy my travels too much! It’s been twelve years since I got out of Japan and went on a trip purely for myself. Too much time. Got grey hairs in the mean time!

Miguel:

Not answering your question or offering anything useful… but I find the term "European Alps" rather strange. Although one may wish to be more specific by stating the Swiss Alps or the Italian Alps, people understand that "The Alps" is European.

Some Japanese like to refer parts of their mountains as "the Japanese Alps". That's fine, but to say European Alps seems to imply that 'alps' is now just a generic term. It isn't.

Say "Alps" in N.E. Oregon and oldtimers will think you're talking about the Wallowas—"Oregon's Alps". We also have the "Applegate Alps", a part of the Klamath Mtns.

alp (plural alps) noun
[15th century. Via French Alpes "Alps" < Latin Alpes< Greek Alpeis which may be influenced by the Latin words albus (white) or altus (high) or more likely a Latin rendering of a Celtic original. The Greek from similar sources.
(1)any high, rugged mountain, especially one capped with snow. Something suggesting an alp in height, size, or ruggedness.
Sources–Mirriam-Webster Online Dictionary, Encarta World Dictionary, Oxford English dictionary

Alp is also a venerable Turkish personal name. I knew a Turkish Alp in Berlin.

Are we Alped out yet?

True. When in Japan or Oregon or anywhere else where "XXX Alps" is used, one would want to be more specific. But otherwise, methinks that a modifier is unecessary — even odd — when referring to "the original".

To use a fictitious example… if there were regional Fuji's like "French Fuji" or "Swiss Fuji" — and if a European were to post in a Japanese forum "Hey, I'm going to the Japanese Fuji" — then perhaps some Japanese would find that odd as well…

As stated above, this has nothing to do with OP's questions, nor is it even useful, but just thinking out loud. And yes, it's a slow day too. :)

Miguel,
finding Snowpeak cannisters could be a problem, but normally you shouldn't have any problem finding alternatives like canisters from Coleman, Primus or MSR.
If you arrive in Zurich, you should be able to find a few stores e.g. Transa ( http://www.transa.ch ). You can find some contactinformation on their site. BTW, they're one of the few stores in Europe which stock Montbell, in case you're feeling homesick.

Or visiting Baechli Bergsport, better prices and huge choice, however not located as centrally as transa
http://www.baechli-bergsport.ch/

Canisters can be found everywhere in Switzerland.
Did the alpine pass way (green via alpina line) using canisters and all went great.
However, there are plenty of possibilities to buy fresh food "en route" (everyday you come back to civilization – unfortunately?), so saving the weight might be an option, especially when you compare price of dehydrated food here in Switzerland and the price of a meal…

Ben, had a good laugh at that. You're absolutely right, of course, about the name of the Alps. I never called any mountain but the Alps in Europe "Alps" until I started climbing in Japan.

The Japan Alps were actually named by the first British climbers (the originators of alpinism here in Japan) not by the Japanese. All the mountains of the Japan Alps' three ranges had their own names (Hida Samyaku, Kiso Samyaku, and Akaishi Samyaku) before being referred to by their English names, North, Central, and South Alps. One of the reasons why preparation for the Alps in Europe is relatively easy for me is the uncanny similarity in both mountain formations and the hiking styles and logistics. Even the hut system is the same (the Japanese one being based on the European one). Until the mid eighties most mountain walkers in Japan even dressed in woolen breeches with knee socks and wore Tyrolean caps. The legacy still lives on in the names of many valleys and peaks and in the names and styles of mountain huts. I don't think I'm going to find myself in too unfamiliar an environment when I reach the heights in Europe.

Oh, and the Japan Alps are never called "the Japanese Alps", just the Japan Alps.

Tom and François… very useful store information. I will need to drop by the stores for some supplies, so knowing where they are before I go is very helpful.

Does anyone know of any good places to stay in Zurich that are not too expensive? I will not be spending too much time in the city, though I would like to look around a bit in a city I've never seen before. I'd also like to leave some of my travel clothing at the place I stay so I don't look like a mountain man everywhere I walk.

Miguel: I posted your question concerning the availability of SnowPeak GigaPower cannisters in the Alps at http://www.trekking-ultraleicht.de, the german equivalent of BPL. There are too answers until now and both say that should be no problem. Hope that helps you!

Valentin, thank you very much for posting the question. It was nice to find a German version of an ultralight forum. I will probably drop by often to read what others say, but I'm so embarrassed about my German that most likely I will not write anything! It's always interesting to read how people in other parts of the world besides the US approach UL.

You read English, Japanese… and now German too??? I am so jealous…

Ahem! (cough! cough!) Ahem, ahem!

Well, after all, Ben, I am German! (though a pretty pathetic one), born and slightly raised. I love eating potato pancakes and have had the dubious distinction of being daily greeted with "Heil Hitler" as a kid in New York, though by my looks how you could mistake me for a German is still a mystery. In Germany I get daily mistaken for a Turk!

Don't you read Chinese? That's not something I can do. And there are lot's of people who speak and read Chinese!

French, Spanish, and a little Portuguese (my wife is from Brazil) too, though not quite as well.

Thought I'd add that to make myself appear wondrously well-trodden! Erm, anyone got a Gabel to scrape me off the floor?

That's funny, Miguel, because your name actually sounds Spanish…

Il y a une – forget it, my French's not to good. What I wanted to say is that there's a French UL forum as well, http://www.randonner-leger.org for those of you who can speak that beautyful language!

Don't hesitate to write in german, Miguel, I mean my English is far from beeing perfect but no one ever told me anything negative about it. And they won't do so at trekking-ultraleicht.de. And hey, most of the trekking-ultraleicht.de members regularly read the BPL threads, means they speak English so you can also ask questions in English there or use an English word if you don't know the german equivalent.