Merino Sheeps Wool vs Alpaca Fiber–the show down, dun dun duh.

[Max Dilthey]

Well, I guess nobody can really complain about backpacking gear discussion on the backpacking gear forums, so I'm glad we did this!

[Desert Dweller]

How's this for an idea? Brynje net baby alpaca long johns……warmth, softness and maybe cheaper! KAT there's a money maker! Hehe
Hey I'm an artist…I think outside the box and paint outside it too!

[Anonymous]

Sounds good to me D.D. :) and even if it's feminine style, well we all know i'm not adverse to switch hitting when it comes to female clothes. (though i would protest, methinks, g-thong undies, just not comfortable).

Among my list of alpaca clothes, i actually do have a pair of pants (almost like expedition/heavy weight thermal baselayer pants) made out of it to. They are 80% baby alpaca and 20% wool. Really good blend imo/e. The sheeps wool gives it more memory/stretch, but it's a bit lighter than a pure wool version and warmer. I believe i Nikwaxed the lower half once to see what would happen, don't remember if it made much difference though.

[Franco Darioli]

Evolution and all of that…
The finest Merino wool comes from NSW (Australia) in particular from a farm situated at around 850m .
Their best bale was a 10 micron bale , recently they produced one at 11 something.
The sheep that produce those bales are kept (mostly) inside a shed .
As far as I know, Alpaca wool has also improved a lot since the animals have been farmed , so again not a gain from harsher condition just better breading and care.

[Charlie Murphy]

Just a bit of archeological history on Alpacas: I have read that Incas had breeding programs for the alpaca before the spaniards invaded. After the invasion the breeding programs were lost, llamas and alpacas were interbred decreasing the quality of their coats. I believe they (Alpaca) used to be a single coated animal. I also believe this is a theory based on fossilized samples.
Interesting discussion, doubt the wool industry has anything to fear:)

[Anonymous]

Charlie! Let me just say that i thoroughly enjoyed your stuff on the Chappelle show.

Thank you for the correction there Franco. I'll admit that part was definitely quite theoretical, though based some on evolutionary logic.

If anybody gets some Komafram stuff when it comes out, let me know how you like it.

[Anonymous]

Found this a little while ago: http://store.waitehillfabrics.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=108

At first glance it seems quite expensive, however, considering it's both a top and bottom, it's actually not a bad price and comparable to retail prices of big name, Merino sports brand baselayers like Rab, Icebreaker, Ibex, Smartwool, etc. 72.50 each for a top, and for a bottom.

The advertising/marketing may leave something to be desired. However, i suspect a percentage of male BPL members here can relate! ;)

I'm tempted myself, however, i think i will hold out to see what the Komafram prices are like since i suspect these will be more durable and longer lasting with the Tencel added. I understand that Komafram is trying to be eco and sustainable and i essentially agree with that, but i don't understand why they can't add like 20% nylon and a little spandex, to increase strength and wear properties.

Tencel dries faster than cotton, and is much more insulating because of the smaller size of the fibers plus the micro hairs that branch off each individual fiber, but still it's not ideal for fastest drying time. Maybe they found that Alpaca is so good in moisture management that a little Tencel didn't slow things done too much?

[Desert Dweller]

Komafram looks very promising, but keep in mind that anything tencel tends to be very expensive, and I've been looking at those prices for years, especially tencel with linen combinations for hot weather. As it applies to this forum here's an interesting excerpt from the Textile World Article about Komafram.

"Garment fabrics are knitted in three weights: ultralite, lightweight and winter weight. One quarterzip model weighs in at 10 ounces, whereas a comparable wool garment would weigh 25 ounces or more. "We are spinning yarns as fine as a 30s cotton count, and we believe it can go finer," Feuerstein said. "

[Anonymous]

Hi D.D.,

Yeah, Tencil can be expensive, but I don't find it any more expensive than other "luxury" fabrics like Merino, linen, or silk for example (and oft times cheaper than these). I've found some garments with high tencel blends for quite reasonable. For example, an REI brand sleeveless shirt with slightly higher than half tencel and slightly lower than half polyester was reasonable (though also on clearance or sale). Found some high tencel/low poly blends on amazon for reasonable as well. (not directly related, but i found a Linen/tencel blend button up shirt at a thrift store.

Tencel is an interesting textile fiber for being cellulose based. The fiber structure has some interesting properties. I believe it is THE strongest garment textile fiber made out of essentially nature material (wood pulp). Some say it's tensile strength is almost as high as polyester, which is amazing. This means it's stronger than both linen and hemp, the strongest more fully natural fibers common in the garment textile market. And even though it's a cousin of Rayon, wheras Rayon is crazy weak when wet, Tencel becomes even stronger when wet (in that sense it's like Linen, Hemp, and Cotton).

I find high tencel blends, when sweat is not involved, is actually kind of on the warm to hot side. This is probably because it's often produced so small is size (typically microfiber size or near to same) and because it often has the "nano fibril" property, wherein super thin/small diameter fiber hairs branch off the main fiber structure. The combination traps a lot of air, making it very insulating in nature. However, if water (sweat) is involved, it does become cooling because of it's absorbing and cellulose nature and faster, more efficient transportation of moisture than say cotton.

Yes, that is an interesting excerpt. I think the product has a lot of promise in a lot of different areas. Plus, it's quite "out of the box" thinking, which i always appreciate when done well and i'm a sucker for environmentally sound/sustainable products. I just hope it's not insanely expensive, like a hundred dollars or more per top or bottom….

[Anonymous]

Hi Scott, nope, this is the first that i've heard of them. But i just did some research. It seems their average micron count isn't particularly low, like that of Merino.

Basically the smaller/thinner the fiber (the lower the micron count), both the softer it will feel the more air it can trap, hence be more insulating per similar weave, thickness and arrangement of fibers. So the average Merino garment is going to be superior in both those ways-warmer and softer.

But it is an interesting and unique sheep breed for sure.

[Anonymous]

Hi Scott,

A little bit. I bought a Camel hair Sport Coat at a thrift store for like 6 dollars. It is very soft and warm. Camels and Alpacas are somewhat closely related from what i understand. But i know a lot less about camel fiber than alpaca fiber–i'm not sure if camel fiber is semi-hollow like alpaca or not.

[Richard Lyon]

Alpacas of Montana had an open house and sale yesterday, and I purchased an alpaca helmet liner with gaiter at a nice discount – but still much more than anything fleece or merino. Stay tuned through the winter and I'll let you know how it performs.

[Anonymous]

Sounds good Richard, look forward to it. Just keep in mind, with natural fabrics and fibers, especially knitted stuff, the quality and how it was knit REALLY affects the ultimate durability.

I had one alpaca hat get holes in it rather quick, i have another that is still going strong.

[David P]

Not to beat on a dead horse but has anyone heard of any company making baselayers made of Alpaca?

I wish there existed a fine gauge alpaca shirt with some rayon bamboo or tencel mixed in

[Justin Baker]

https://woopwear.com/

[David P]

Thanks Justin

Any idea what the composition of these shirts? 100% alpaca or is it a blend?

[Clifford Deakyne]

Woman’s shirts specifies 70% alpaca 30% Tencel.

[Marc Dalessio]

Kora and Jottnar are making yak-wool base layers. Not sure if that was mentioned. Supposed to be warmer than wool. I have a Kora one but I got it this summer and it’s been too warm to try it.

[Melissa H]

And about 3 years later, Alpaca base layers and mid layers have FINALLY ARRIVED!

Hi everyone,
I know this forum is old, but I thought I would respond since I read some interesting topics about Alpaca Vs Merino and the fact that Alpaca fleeces are finally available for hiking, sports in extreme weather, etc. I’d like to first off say that Arms of Andes is a new organization that develops mid layers and base layers made of 100% Royal Alpaca from the Andes of Peru. There are different type of Alpaca fibers such as baby alpaca, royal alpaca, etc. So, I can see why there’s much discussion on how Alpaca is better or not as good as Merino. If you guys want to personally test it out and see which is better. Please visit my site: http://www.armsofandes.com

and feel free to ask me any questions.
We work directly with Alpaca farmers in Peru and strictly keep our mid layers and base layers 100% natural. The benefits of Alpaca that I found from researching and talking to Alpaca farmers, are hypoallergenic, wicking capabilities, durability, 30% in length of merino fiber, pocket like fiber that retain warmth and make it lightweight. Our base layers are about 230 grams and mid layers are 420 grams. At touch, it does feel softer than cashmere, we are about at 18 microns. I’ve taken trips to Iceland, Norway, London, and Big Bear in California with the mid layer, and it was warm and very soft. But check out our site and blogs you can find way more info. feel free to shoot an email too if you want [email protected]

[Max O]

Hi Melissa, thanks for letting the world know! ;)
I am a very convinecd user of natural fibers in generel, and will have a look into your products. First thoghuts:
I’d need a thinner quality, like 160gr/m
Give the zip-neck thumbloops to please :)

Any sources for your stuff in Europe?

Does somebody know what became with Komafram?

[Melissa H]

Hi Max,

I’m glad to hear! And thank you for the feedback :) the thumbloops seem to be very popular. We are coming out with t-shirts, socks, and boxers made only from Royal Alpaca. However, the T-shirts we’re aiming for 190 g, 160 g might be to thin to create but I will speak with production.

And yes, we actually have inventory in Amsterdam.

And I’m not familiar with Komafram.

[JCH]

Hi Melissa. Very interesting products, but this is BackpackingLIGHT and I don’t see any garment weights listed…a critical component in comparing options.

[Melissa H]

Hi JCH,

thanks for the input. the weights on the mid layers and base layers are listed on arms of andes website. Base layers: 230 g and mid layers: 420 g. the fleeces are pretty warm, for example, snowboarding in Big Bear, CA, i did not need an outer jacket. So I was able to snowboard without so much weight on me. In Iceland, I had just the mid layers and outer coat, I didn’t need a base layer. But, thats just me, maybe other people require more layers to feel a comfortable warmth.

[JCH]

Melissa,

I took the 230g and 420g to be the weight of the fabric.  If you are saying those are the total weights of the finished garments, then I apologize for the confusion.

[Melissa H]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Oh, now i see the mix up. Yes, that is total weight of the finished garments. no worries!</p>

[Author]

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