cost efficient gear

Donald, here is a thread from January, 2006 in which we discussed an ultralight-on-a-budget challenge. It’s nearly a half dozen pages long with lots of suggestions.

View the thread here.

This discussion, http://tinyurl.com/39e46u, has some good advice (especially by me :)). Seriously though, I think this is worth reading (although there are a few tangents in there). The last bit of advice is great. The first thing every ultralight person should do is buy a scale (I'm not sure how to find the cheapest scale — maybe someone else does — I would start a separate thread if you want info on that). After weighing your stuff, follow Brett's advice and make a spreadsheet with weights, replacement weights and costs. Before you do that though (which would require research to find the possible replacements) just copy the list of your stuff and how much it weighs up here. You can do so on this thread or the "gear list" forum. Once you do that, you will get plenty of advice for saving weight on a budget. Until we know where you are, it is tough to know what to suggest. If you are starting from scratch, then we can just go from there. The other piece of information is how willing you are to make your own stuff. Are you handy? Do you own a sewing machine (and know how to use it)? Look forward to seeing more info.

Before I even read the suggested posts, I'll mention where I'm at now for your entertainment! Keep in mind I came from the hunting side of camping. I also want to enjoy camping/backpacking with my wife. I started out with a bunch of stuff from REI outlet for me and my wife. A couple Sierra Designs 650 down 30* bags, 2.5#, 2 insulmat long pads,(bargain price,22oz), a Eureka Spitfire 2 tent at 4# and $104 on ebay, A Gregory Z-pack 3#3oz, and a 3# Marmot Vapor 35 for the sweetie. I think $125 and $75 for those. I made a Supercat Stove and purchased 2 different Pepsi can stoves off ebay. I bought an aluminum cookset at Walmart for $25. 2 Sporks (lightmyfire) at WW for $2.25 apiece. I have 2 cheap boy scout type aluminum cook sets. I have a Heineken pot and a Fosters pot along with the esbit setup from this site. One Walmart blue pad cut in half, just arrived two Hennessy Hammocks for us (ultralight backpacker, one asym one not) factory seconds both for $228. One Tilley Hat and flyrod from Cabelas (free with points from credit card). One cacoon pullover from this site (soon to come). I've made a turkey bag windscreen with carbon arrows for stakes, purchased MSR stakes for the tent and a 4mil ground cloth, lots of little containers from BPL, and emer bivy etc etc. Now I'm working on some UL base layers and wind shirts ,pants that are quiet enough and tough enough for bowhunting but will be warm enough when strenuous exercise turns into sudden stillness for 30 min to an hour. I just ordered a Fanatic Fringe pack for me 10oz and one for my wife 7oz to explore that side of the equation. I know it is unforgiveable, but so far we have camped 3 times and walked 2 different trails (without our packs!) approx 6mi trails. (We walk the neighborhood loop about 3 mi as often as we can). Told you this was for your entertainment!

Donald,

You seem to be able to afford quite a bit more than some other folks…and I always suggest to someone who is thinking about how much they might spend in total, price a 7 day vacation on a cruise or to Hawaii and compare that with all the UL equipment you could want…and there is still no comparison. I have indeed dumped a fair amount of money into my gear, but I have also spent twice as much on one "nice/extravagant" vacation. The nice thing with my gear is that it gets me out each time now with no more investment. I just need transporation and consumables covered.

My only advice is to zero in on the season/location/activity of where you will spend the majority in backpack mode. My baseline to start was Summer/Sierra Nevada's/trekking and fishing. This really allowed me to pick the best single item in each of the biggest weight groups as best I could. Shelter, pack, and sleep system or the biggies, and clothing is kind of huge too. Stoves and headlamps and various other things seem to be fun toys that garner a lot of attention in the gear world, but really, if you have a 4 oz. stove and a 5 lbs tent…you have missed the point obviously.

You are doing well on the curve…but comments like "lot's of little containers" and base "layers" indicates you are still tinkering with lots of optional stuff to bring. The real trick is to decide, I may not need all this stuff, and it certainly does not all need to be organized and contained for a Navy Seal strike. You don't need multiple pairs of underwear, or 7 kinds of UL socks, or 3 different base layers depending on how long and when you are going. Get light stuff and overall, simplify!

Also, trying stuff will really give you insight into what matters to you most on the trail. Saving an ounce on a toothbrush for a Gossamer Gear finger brush seemed a great idea for $1.99…but reality is, it did not work for me and I would rather have a fresh mouth on day 5 than save that ounce.

Thanks Scott, funny you mentioned the toothbrush. I read that cutting your toothbrush in half was a good gear weight reduction stategy, and I thought "seems to me you could save a ton more weight in other areas". Of course I was correct on that but I still bought a childs toothbrush and cut the handle in half. Then I tried Dr. Bronners. It is fun playing with the variables. I was going to ask the question of "where do you get these finger toothbrushes" until you just revealed that info to me. I don't think I'll spring for that item. I think I've spent more than I should have out of ignorance in terms of what I need but I chalk it up to a learning curve. The total setup for my wife and I from REI was $500. The biggest splurge was the cacoon pullover, but I felt that was the biggest bang for the buck out there. I have a tremendous amount of bowhunting gear from 20 years accumulation, but this lightweight slant has really got me excited and I really want to use this knowledge to help me enjoy the outdoors in my late 40's thru the rest of my years. I'm reasonably fit, but I have a crooked spine and bad knees and shoulders that are somewhat limiting. Lead on!

Cost efficiency is a highly personal, subjective, and variable attribute (like all economic valuations it is subject to the evaluator's time preference, local knowledge, risk tolerance, and perceived opportunity costs and sunk costs).

For instance if you already have a sewing machine, and get entertainment value from creating things, do it yourself gear can provide the most cost effective items once you have gained an eye toward practical, buildable designs, and if you can source materials cheaply. I've built tarps and quilts for very specific conditions; but I've also not used them when short term weather forecasts or long trip duration makes low-margin gear use questionable for comfort or safety. Modifiying over-built commercial gear that you already have is one way to ease into a lighter kit.

Most trad backpackers assess that the most cost effective is bomber gear made for the worst conditions they expect, but when you consider that you spend most of your day walking, lightening up by not using over-built gear or not bringing things 'just in case' can be really liberating. Sometimes adding weight in the right places (such as trekking poles, or for foul conditions a good synthetic over jacket (what climbers call a belay jacket) is the right play.

I think you are in pretty good shape as far as having a light load. A few things to suggest:

1) Replace the tent with a tarptent (Six Moons, Shires, etc.). This will save you a couple pounds. My wife and I use this and have been quite pleased.

2) I assume the pads are 22 oz. a piece. This being the case, replace with either GossamerGear NightLight or a Thermarest RidgeRest. The NightLight is better, but not a lot better. The RidgeRest is probably a better value (especially if you can buy it cheaply) and you can get it in long (if you insist). In either case, this probably won't be as comfortable as what you use now, so you and your wife have to decide whether it is worth it (I use a NightLight while my wife uses a Thermarest Prolite 3).

3) You don't mention rain gear, but that is one of the big savings (for me). I definitely recommend DriDucks or O2 rain jackets. They are very fragile, but if you are careful, you can make them last a long time. They are so cheap and light, you won't cry when you finally put a rip in them.

4) I don't know how much your cook set weighs or what is in it, but the best solution here is to simplify. A pot, two spoons and a couple bowls is all you really need (even the bowls and one spoon may be optional depending on what you like to eat). For spices, use those tiny bags or a straw (http://www.munex.net/kekawaka/straws.html). For oils and soap, use the tiny droppers sold on this site.

5) I don't know how much your ground cloth weighs, but 4mil plastic can be heavy. Try a polycro ground cloth (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/polycryo_ground_cloth.html) which is cheap, very light and tough for its weight.

6) You also haven't mentioned how you plan on treating or filtering your water (or what you use to hold it). Treating is lighter, but you have to wait for it to be treated. If you filter, I recommend getting an inline filter (Seychelles or other brands I don't remember). Get a platypus (or similar bladder) and attach it your filter. When you want a drink, turn the thing upside down and suck. Wash out the platypus after you get home (soap and water). You might want to have two platypus bladders, one clean, one dirty. You can rig up a gravity filter system with a little bit of tubing. Poke a couple holes in the corners of the dirty platypus and tie some cord on that end to hang.

Speaking of water, if you know you are going next to water (such as up a creek) you can save a lot of weight by not carrying water. Just use the filter system I described to drink heavily when you stop. Be careful as being dehydrated is a lot worse than carrying a few extra pounds.

Thanks Ross, all input is appreciated. Man those tarp tents look awesome and I betcha within a year I'll buy one, but right now I'm gonna live with my 2# dead wt Eureka cuz I've only had it a year. The hammocks I just got are 1#15oz and 1#8oz respectively, and I will not have to have a pad, so that will be a pretty good alternative, lightweight solution, but no huggy no kissy in the two separate sleeping quarters! I picked up a windshield screen at Wal Mart today for insulation in the hammock this fall. Tom at Hennessy actually recommended it for a cheap alternative to his cold weather system! I plan on freezer bag meals with either the alcohol stove or the esbit beer can set up, meals eaten from the bags, 2 lightmyfire sporks and that new (forgot the name) one step aqua mira type water treatment. Walmart 1 litre tonic water bottles and or 20oz Gatorade bottles for water, like you said drinking as much as we can stand at the water sources. Those insulmats were only about $29 so I sacrificed the weight of the long model. If I can stand the weight, you can't beat the comfort for 22oz! That is if I use the tent. I did in fact purchase the rain gear you named as it just became available last week again! Do you think I could get away with using the top as a windshirt? My long underwear is expedition weight and also I have the under armour stuff for hunting. I want to buy a smartwool zip t long sleeve in a very light weight for my base layer for backpacking. (AND hunting) I also want to buy a platypus setup where I can drink as I go. I messed up and bought a camelback insulated setup before I knew what a heavy setup that was! My Gregory Z pack will need the bladder setup but the Fanatic Fringe will have the right side pocket lowered where I can access a water bottle on the go. I also want to experiment with the tarp bivy setups, but that will have to wait for later. I do plan on carrying very little clothing and as little as possible extras. Thanks again for the suggestions! Don P.S. I bought a postal scale at the Post Office (go figure) for $29. A lot of fun weighing things!

You can use the rain jacket as a wind shirt. The only disadvantage is that it doesn't breathe as well as a "real" wind shirt. At least, that is the argument (made many times on this site) for buying a wind shirt when you already own a rain jacket. Also, I might add that it works well as a bug suit. I don't like Deet, so I just use a head net with the bug shirt and pants (of course, I tend to walk around camp with my hands in pants). Now that I have new Event rain mitts (not cost efficient gear) I can avoid that. The big drawback to these jackets are there fragility. If you are cutting through the brush while hunting, you want to start thinking of another option.

Thanks again Ross, I see what you are saying about the breathability aspect. To me it seems there is a huge market waiting to be tapped for ultralight hunting gear. I know a few years ago I kept adding more and more must have hunting gear until I was terribly burdened walking into the woods to hunt. I would like to transfer knowledge and gear from this site into my world of hunting. I know that for the same reasons it makes backpacking more enjoyable, it will make hunting more enjoyable. Bowhunting is 99% watching nature anyway. You can certainly see alot more if you are not burdened down with gear. And don't get me wrong, while I LOVE a DEAL, I also LOVE having the best product for the job, no matter what the task.

Trading an insulmat for a ridgerest would have to be the most unfair trade in the world. After a certain age, you just can't do a ridgerest.

I think easily overlooked, and alluded to earlier in this thread, is how cheap backpacking is compared to many other travel-related activities and hobbies. Once you get your initial gear dialed in (provided you can stay satisfied with it) you're set until something wears out. Some of the gear you use today may serve you well, decades into the future. Once the gear is out of the way, backpacking is comparatively cheap to most travel.

That said, here's a great article over at Whiteblaze.net that has some fantastic ideas about low cost gear acquisition, or "dirt bagging" as Sgt. Rock calls it: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#

Yes Joe I know what you mean, and I'm already about that age! The soft pad may be one area that I give in to weight in the future. And for those discussing the bargain lightweight backpacking equipment is, I could not agree more. Believe me, I have spent serious bucks on hunting equipment and my hunting travels. $1000 bucks is chump change for a great backpacking setup that can bring you a lot of joy. But, on to the whiteblaze thread!