Anyone else slightly underwhelmed by ULA packs? [crickets chirping]

The Epic has curved pre-bent stays. The ULA OHM with the hooped stays are straight and noticeable.

The Kelty Cache Hauler has a slight curve, as does the Dana externals, and Jansport Externals and most any other external. I wouldn’t always call them an S curve though, sometimes it’s just a slight arc. The MR Crew Cab is pretty much straight. The older externals could get away with less curve because the frame was mostly outside the shoulder blades in a more straight part of the body. The ULA OHM sort of does this, but is not set as wide. On older externals, often the mesh back panel contacts the shoulder blades first effectively keeping the frame off the user and increasing comfort. The Crew Cab, mostly uses significant padding to keep the frame of the user.

The companies I am involved in( Seek outside and Paradox Packs) provide a bit of a unique perspective. First we use a lot of Carbon FIber poles, and have our Carbon custom made. Secondly, we make a hybrid frame pack

Our stays or frame has a distinct S curve to it. If we used Carbon for a frame , it would have a curve. It just won’t be super comfortable or ride close enough for most people without some curve, especially at big loads. How much curve is needed is mostly a function of where the frame rides.

Seek Outside
Paradox Packs

"The old trapper pack had exceptionally straight frame. It was horrible! Not all due to the frame, but it sure didn't help."

Stephen, I will make sure to email Dana Gleason on his straight Crew Cab frame. I have no idea what he was thinking. I mean, it isn't like this frame is intended to carry over 100 lbs of kill….

The little bend in that Kelty frame below the pack is considered an "s" to you? It is below the wearer's rear. The start of the "s" should be in the lumbar.

Anyhoo, Kevin thanks for the perspective. Your frame looks quite amazing. I may need one.

While I won't say they're the best packs, but I've hiked probably 3-4000 miles with them in the past 4 years and they work well for me. I have tried some other packs during this time(HMG, SMD, MLD), but the Circuit continues to be my favorite pack trip after trip.

Of course it's been said, but different packs for different folks for different trips.

You know, Dave, it finally occurred to me last night that there is a huge difference between external and internal packs when it comes to frames or stays. An internal framed pack rides directly against the hiker's back, and carries best when the load is as close as possible to one's back, in my experience.

An external frame pack sits away from the hiker's back, with the only contact being at the hip (via the hip belt) and behind and below the shoulders (via a tightened piece of fabric). Thus it does not need to follow the hiker's back like an internal frame does.

Some internal frame pack makers, responding to folks who don't like sweat, have come up with clever designs to create space between the hiker and the back of an internal frame pack. In my experience, with my old, easily pained back, those packs don't carry as well as well as a regular internal framed pack – thus my preference for the Catalyst and the McHale, which ride comfortably against my back. And at this point, I can feel a external frame pack (my old cheap REI being the only one I still have) pulling weight backwards, in contrast to the Catalyst. It may not be a huge difference, but my beat-up old back can feel it, and it complains.

Re the Kelty: Again, take your straight edge, and hold it against the Kelty – this time do it just above the bottom bend. It will still not align fully against the very shallow curve of the upper 3/4s of the frame. Call it a shallow "C", or a shallow "S" for the whole frame, but it is not straight.

I finally looked up the Mystery Ranch frame- yup, it's straight. I wish you joy of it while you're packing out your elk. The hip belt alone makes it a very different frame from the old trapper and likely more comfortable, but I find myself uninterested.

YMMV.

I have a whopping five miles on my shiny new Ohm 2.0 that i received yesterday. I must say my initial impression is very positive. Build quality is great. The hip belt is fantastic and it has tons of room and utility.

While the carbon fiber stays are straight, they do flex. I found that when i snugged up the load lifters, their force combined with the hip belt in the lower back area caused the stays to bend into an S shape. It conformed to my back nicely.

Haven't read all the posts, but here's my experience: I just got back doing 70ish miles hiking and packrafting in North Dakota. I used a Catalyst and carried a little over 45 lbs (lots of water). I hiked 33 miles in two days, and the Catalyst did well. That amount of weight will wear on you no matter what pack you use, but it handled it as well as I could expect. I was able to keep most of the weight off my shoulders, and the load was stable, even when bushwacking down the side of a coulee when we lost the trail.

Hi,

Sorry I haven't read all the posts and apologize if this has been mentioned. Anish gave here feedback on the ULA CDT here (grade C)

http://runhikelivelove.blogspot.com/2013/08/gear-reviews-from-2013-pct-fkt-part-1.html

From the link to Anish:

"Back sores/chafing. I had incredibly painful chafing and sores on my back nearly the entire hike. I believe part of this was due to my back never getting to air out or a recovery day to heal. I think the pack size was too large for me and therefore hung down too low as well."

I don't own a frameless pack so I really can't speculate as to what the problem is with her shoulders. Size and lack of weight transfer leaps to mind.

As far as her back goes, with the sheer hours she was putting on the trail and the pack on her back for upwards of 19 hours per day, I'm not surprised. It almost sounds like bed sores.

I have about an 18" torso as well (5'11" here–not much taller). But with ULA's sizing, that puts me firmly in a Large. Look up how they do measurements, and you'll quickly see why there's a discrepancy.

All of your problems regarding load transfer are indicative of a pack that is simply too short. The others–well–personal preference in design and aesthetics are important as well. Just don't fault them for the load transfer issues.

"I have about an 18" torso as well (5'11" here–not much taller). But with ULA's sizing, that puts me firmly in a Large. Look up how they do measurements, and you'll quickly see why there's a discrepancy."

Clayton,
What exactly do you mean by "how they do their measurements?" Nothing on the ULA website indicated to me that they take their measurements of torso length any differently than the standard way (the distance between the top of your iliac crest and your C7 vertebrae), as indicated by this surprisingly transfixing sizing video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4VqSX3NpQ#t=92

Also, when you look at the sizing description of the ULA packs, you will find the following breakdown:
Small: 15"-18"
Medium: 18"-21"
Large: 21"-24"
XL: 24"

Please tell me what I am missing here? How does an 18" torso warrant a large sized pack?

This is all sort of irrelevant anyway because when I went to the store and tried the packs on, I could make the medium too big for me if I didn't adjust the hipbelt up. So all this talk of taking a size large is just craziness to me. If anything I should consider a size small (but it felt ever so slightly too small, as I mentioned in a previous post).

While I'm definitely not buying either the Catalyst or the Circuit at this point, I'm almost tempted to go back to the store, try on the different sizes and give everyone here picture evidence of what I'm talking about.

… Though maybe I'll just go hiking instead because this "pack is too small for you" talk is all just kind of nonsense at this point based on what I already know from trying these packs on for several hours.

Travis…did u do the MDH? We bike packed it a couple months ago and it was awesome. Might try a packraft/bikeback next year.

Diego,
Yeah, we did the section from Elkhorn Ranch to Medora, then rafted back to Elkhorn. We were really lucky that the river was higher than normal, so paddling was easy with only a couple of spots where we scraped bottom. Our original plan was to do the whole river and MDH, but for reasons that I'll outline in a trip report, we cut out early and did some nights in a campground, day hiked, and an overnight in the North Unit of Theodore Roosevelt.

Derek, as I'm sure you know, the traditional torso length measurement would have your iliac crests hitting the midpoint of the hipbelt vertically. The problem is that companies do not use this standardized method when making packs. ULA–like many pack makers–measure torso length as a function of the length of the backpanel. For example, I measured a size medium Ohm 2.0 at 20" from the shoulder straps to the bottom of the backpanel–i.e., the lowest possible point for the hipbelt adjustment. The difference is that this is two inches shorter than specified (the height of ULA hipbelts is 4"). This problem is further compounded by the shape of the hipbelt, which curves such that it adapts to the body's shape better, but with the side effect that the bottom of the pack sits at an even lower position–easily an inch or more depending upon the individual wearer, effectively shortening the torso even further. Factoring only these two in, the medium is only useful for up to about a 17" torso.

Compound this with further complexifying factors, such as posture and body type. For example, if a person has a tendency to slouch (one of my bad habits due to spending too much work time in front of a computer), that can shorten a torso measurement by an inch or more. Moreover, the C7 vertebrae is not a universal indicator for torso length. For some this is above the trapezius muscles, others below, and many about right–but it varies person to person. The same can be said for iliac crests–these two vary widely from person to person.

The point of all this is that the traditional torso length measurement is a general starting place, but by no means definitive, and the way the ULA measures their pack lengths is different from this as well. As I said before, all the symptoms you describe indicate a poor-fitting pack, not a poorly-made one. There are lots of reasons that they may not fit you or meet your needs, but I don't think the load transfer issues are part of that.