Womans small torso pack fitting issues

Fwiw 16-17" isnt really small. My wife is a 15.5 so finding a 16+ shouldnt be too hard

But here you are :)

Did you have 20lbs in the packs when you tried them on?

Which pack does your wife use?

I've loaded them all up with my full weight (the GoLite at home with all of my gear – and the other 2 at REI they loaded with 30 lbs)

She has an old rei flash? UL 45.

Hmmm. Idk. Loosen the top load lifters?

Tighten them last (if at all- i kinda hate em) or at least after the shoulder straps. Maybe you did that?

Thats all i got

"GoLite Quest 65 – Shoulder straps were too high off shoulders
Osprey Atmos 65 – shoulder straps were too high
Deuter ACT Lite 60 + 10 SL – LOVED the way this pack fit – but the straps rubbed against the side of my neck (anyone have any bright ideas on if this could be modified?)"

I'm going to put in my own 2 cent here. There have been 3-4 recent threads discussing pack fitting issues so you might want to check those as well to get an idea of what we were talking about. Since you don't explicitly say what size each pack was I am inferring from the other info that they were all smalls. Is that the case?

The short answer is that the shoulder straps should NOT really sit "on your shoulders". Ideally they should press on the front of your shoulders, holding the pack against your back. That is their main job – really almost their only job. So I think there may be a misunderstanding of what the "right fit" should be, and how the pack should work. The long (winded) answer follows.

There are variations between people as to how they like to wear a pack, and variations on what companies "recommend" as the range of correct torso lengths, and so on. All of this cause confusion about fit – it is totally common. Since companies try to stretch recommended range onto as few set sizes as possible, you are especially going to get variations at the short end of size (you) and the very long end. If you find a pack that is indeed too short, don't be afraid to try the next size up.

The approximate right position of the shoulder straps should be straight back from the tops of your shoulders with a fully loaded pack. Beyond getting a general idea which packs to try on, you should just forget for the moment about *everything else* related to torso length – recommended or otherwise. Give the strap attachment point plus or minus an inch from horizontal off of your shoulders – any larger deviations and things become very marginal. More than 1.5 + inches off and you are in bad fit territory.

Also when you find a pack that fits your torso right, even if you don't like it for other reasons, take out a tape measure and measure the distance from the middle of the belt to the level where the straps attach to the pack. Remember *that* number. In the future, if you find a pack that same measurement (you will have to measure it yourself and ignore the "recommended torso lengths") then that pack should also fit you well.

On the neck issue, my first thought is that you have a bad fit, or things adjusted incorrectly, or both. A pack with the correct torso that is properly adjusted should not be anywhere near your neck – the pressure points should be lightly on the *front* of you shoulders. Unless you have weightlifter shoulders, or are a two headed troll, the "digging" into you neck is probably NOT a style issue. It is probably a fit issue.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say %85 probability it is one or both of these issues – but we did have a recent thread/s from a guy who was a weightlifter who had that issue. Are you absolutely sure you are adjusting the load lifters and sternum strap correctly? If you continue to have this particular issue I would try on some longer packs. Actually is sound like you did but rejected them for what may have not have been legitimate reason.

Make sure the pack is long enough so that the straps are close to straight back when the pack is *fully loaded*. If you are trying them out empty or lightly loaded in the store then you can expect the pack to settle and the effective torso length to shorten with full weight. So make sure it really is the right length – minimal to no wraparound when fully loaded. If you then adjust the load lifters correctly (and sternum strap not overly tight)it should get the straps off you shoulders.

The above mentioned guy with the weightlifter shoulders had his neck issues fixed by getting a catalyst. However that might have been due as much to getting the proper overall fit as well.

One last thing – a totally legitimate definition of a "backpack" is "a belt with a bag of some sort attached". The shoulder straps, ideally, have only one purpose to keep the pack vertical (when there is a suspension system) so the weight transfers directly downward onto the belt. If you feel the shoulder straps are bearing a lot of weight, and as a result they dig, this is a sign you have a bad fit. You should feel like pretty much all the weight is on your belt and if you, for instance, loosen the shoulder straps a bit the pack should more or less rotate freely back at an angle rotating from the belt. It should ideally feel like the straps are holding the pack forward, but not up.

If I had to bet on this I would put my money on the fact that the packs that have the neck issue for you are actually too short, in spite of your in-store positive response to them. Likewise, perhaps some of the other pack were rejected prematurely.

Yeah, I think I can agree with that. There are two basic camps about hiking styles. The division also causes a lot of conversation about crrying packs and pack fit.

Shoulder carry, ie no hip belt is usually used for lighter packs. Up to 20 pounds total loads. This is usually UL (<10 pounds base gear) or SUL (<5 pounds base gear.)

Hip belt carry, ie on the hips is usually used for heavier packs. 30-50 pounds is not uncommon.

Sometimes a combination is used as in Aarn packs. Thes are designed to improve hiking posture, and, weight carrying. The same weight carrying benifits can be transfered to a SUL hiker also.

Both are equally valid. Often an SUL hiker can carry 20-30 pounds of gear (~9-14kg) for a couple weeks out. Or, a heavy weight hiker will carry only enough food for two days, gathering water as he goes. In this case their weights will overlap with the SUL hiker carrying more weight than the heavy weight hiker.

Anyway, the trick is to keep things balanced with your particular phisique and strengths. Often, the way you load a pack will have an effect, but this is not the subject here. You do NOT want a heavy pack resting on your shoulders, restricting your breathing and making you work for every breath. Your chest will lift up at the shoulders and out at the ribs to increase breathing. Anything over ten to fifteen pounds will cause a problem with breathing.

Conversly, a pack loaded with thirty pounds or more will cause you to expend a lot of effort. So, generally a hip belt is used. This also restricts the figure eight motion of the hips as you walk, again causing you to expend extra efort to carry the weight. It can get in the way of jumping and hopping along a trail. One of the usual pictures of a heavy weight packing is one of plodding along, not skipping and dancing down the trail.

There is no good solution. The entire pack weight needs to be carried somehow. The best you can do is minimize the effects of the weight on your body.

Ill also add that you should play with where the hip belt is. Some wear it across the hip bones, some above it. I like to wear mine on the higher end, more my natural waist, and let the pack settle onto my hips. This will change how the straps feel.

Mark's post was spot on. I think most people think the straps are supposed to support the weight (like wearing a book bag or day pack) on top of your shoulders, but that is NOT true. And at your expected weights and volumes you need all the weight at your hips. Think of the shoulder straps as there only to keep the pack from tipping backwards…

Thanks for the insight into the fitting – unfortunately, they were definitely adjusted properly – the shoulder straps would hover just above my shoulders on the 2 packs that weren't fitting right in the shoulders (at the smallest length it could go). I had 3 different experienced backpacker friends assist me with the fitting of the GoLite to make sure I wasn't crazy (because – like you, I assumed it had to be that I was adjusting it wrong). They all came to the same conclusion I did (after we successfully fit it to my friends wife) – that it just wasn't going to fit me properly.

When I tried on the Osprey at REI – the pack fit the same way – hovering above my shoulders. The woman helping me knew nearly immediately that it wasn't going to work. She said its a very common issue she sees when sizing women in smaller packs.

On the Deuter pack that rubbed on my neck – technically it was not my "neck" but the muscles between the top of my shoulders and my neck….the straps were to closer together than the other packs (and this had nothing to do with the chest strap – just how it was constructed. I had redness and irritation after wearing it around the store for 15 minutes (enough that random customers were commenting).

I'll probably order the Catalyst and see how that fits

I hate to be repetitive, but if the straps were hovering just above your shoulders, then it probably WAS correct…

As mark mentioned, they are NOT supposed to wrap around them (that's too small)…when fully loaded the top of the straps should be either directly even with the top of your shoulders or hovering 1-1.5 inches above.

And regardless of what anyone says, the only way to know if it fits well is to carry it around fully loaded on a hike. A real hike, with your real stuff in it, to see how it carries.

So I take it that the school of thought is that you either carry all the pack weight on your shoulders or if to heavy then you get a pack with hip belt and carry it all on your hips. This is not the way I do it and I don't believe it to be the only way. My shoulder straps do wrap my shoulders and I use the load lifters to snug the pack up tighter to me and / or to lift the weight off the top of my shoulders. I want the weight distributed between my shoulders and hips. They used to say that a external frame pack should carry 80% on the hips and 20% shoulders and a internal 60-40. I guess that sometime along the way that changed to all on your shoulders or all on your hips but I don't agree with a lot of what I'm hearing here. Sounds really black and white. I have no way of knowing what % is on my hips or shoulders I just go by feel and I change when Idont like what I feel. Also once you pull the load lifter so tight it really dont matter where the strap hooks that's all loose material all that would matter is the height of the loadlifter. Did any one read the "how does my pack fit" thread recently, that guys pack wrapped his shoulder and I thought a good fit I do agree however that he should have had it fully loaded cause that can change everything. YMMV

"So I take it that the school of thought is that you either carry all the pack weight on your shoulders or if to heavy then you get a pack with hip belt and carry it all on your hips."

I believe what James was referring to (he can correct me if I'm wrong) was the distinction of using a frameless UL pack that has either no hipbelt at all or only a nominal web one, as opposed to a pack with a frame where the weight should be mostly on the belt. There is an in-between class of packs (a good example is the Golite Jam) with pretty iffy frames where yes, you will need to balance some of the weight on your shoulders simply because the frame, such as it is, will collapse at some point if it has to support enough weight.

The OP seems clearly in the Full frame category based on the packs mentioned, and the weight.

The story about the hip belt supporting most of the weight is very old, and the more weight the more important is this point. If you, as you say, "balance the weight across your shoulders" then adjust the load lifters so as to, "get the weight off the top of your shoulders" then you are in fact re-balancing on you hips. The snugging force doesn't bear any weight. Its basic physics. You can believe whatever you want to believe, and as Jennifer said, ultimately it comes down to what feels good to you. However, there are a lot of people who have done things one way for years, and discovered once they switched over that they were suddenly much more comfortable, and have bemoaned all the years they were sure they had it just right.

If you are going lightweight, say 20 lbs or less, you may never notice the difference because it doesn't matter that much and the price you will pay for it is minimal. If you use heavier weight or have sensitive shoulders you will pay the price. I think it is a fair assertion that for a given weight, the right pack and pack fit can always get the straps almost entirely off your shoulders. Whether of not you CARE is a different issue. Clearly this is an issue with the OP.

My advice to the OP is based on the fact that the place where she is feeling friction need not even be touching her shoulder. In this case it seems pretty clear that that pack was too short if she could not get the straps off those points. If the straps were a bit closer together, same thing holds, only MORE so. If you aren't going to get a custom pack you have to adjust where you can. So there is a specific issue here, and that is independent of philosophy, which I don't care about. On the other hand if the straps were really "too high" then she may need a pack with an in-between length. Can you send a photo you wearing one of the too-high fit packs? There is a very specific measurement I'm interested in here, and that is the distance between straight back horizontally when you shoulders and arms are in the hiking position and where the strap attach to the back of the pack. Is this one inch above? Two inches? etc. It is easy to answer this, and this will tell you precisely how off you may be, and which torso size should be a good target.

Lastly I will point out that you can perfectly well wear a pack where "the straps are too high", and the downside is not that "the straps are to high", but the loss of stability (the pack with tend to shift back and forth laterally when you walk)if they get too high. The OP hasn't mentioned if there was a lack of stability present. If there isn't a stability problem, and the shoulder stress is gone, then problem solved. That would be the right fit for HER. Maybe it is on the tail of the bell curve, but if it works for her she should go for it. Even if it looks funny!

The Deuter 60+10 SL backpack is omni-adjustable – that pack (or non-SL) can be adjusted to fit just about anyone. The SL is the "narrower" female version of their shoulder strap harness.

I'm hearing a tightness across the shoulders / neck area. Try the wider men's version – also look at the 50+15 "Act-Zero" and save a half of pound. If you're lucky enough to find a pre-2011 Act-Zero 60+10 on E-Bay or elsewhere you can save another 5-6oz – sub 3-lbs.

OR – if you like the fit of the 60+10 pack & hipbelt – the men's shoulder harness can be purchased separately – look at the Deuter site under "Accessory".

"Lastly I will point out that you can perfectly well wear a pack where "the straps are too high", and the downside is not that "the straps are to high", but the loss of stability (the pack with tend to shift back and forth laterally when you walk)if they get too high. The OP hasn't mentioned if there was a lack of stability present. If there isn't a stability problem, and the shoulder stress is gone, then problem solved. That would be the right fit for HER. Maybe it is on the tail of the bell curve, but if it works for her she should go for it. Even if it looks funny!"

This is exactly what the issue is with both of the packs where the straps cannot be adjusted to rest on my shoulders. (When I say "hover" i don't mean they aren't wrapping around my shoulder – I mean they aren't touching any part of the top or the back of my shoulders….so the whole pack was totally unstable. With the GoLite fully loaded it was extremely unstable. I walked around with it quite a bit and the whole pack was swaying as I walked…if I tilted to the side it was a disaster waiting to happen. With the osprey I didn't even bother loading it up because it felt so awkward initally – that one wasn't gonna work from the get-go.

Then those were definitely too long. The next time that happens measure (or have someone measure) the distance from the point straight back from your shoulders up to the point where the straps attach. That distance is about how far you should be from the middle of the proper torso length, so you need a size that much smaller. If there is no smaller size then that model is out for you. You might have just have been unlucky with the sizes on those packs. The short end is a bad place to be – if you look at the ranges that are recommended you will often see the recommended range there is *wider*, contrary to intuition. I always assume the marketing department said "we're not going to add another size below that one, so lets just fudge the lower recommended range down a bit. LOL

Basically I think the idea to try men's packs on any of the non-unisex model you like might be a good one. I believe these, in addition being wider would possibly range over different torso lengths, so perhaps you might have additional chances to get one that fits right. If it fits, if fits, and that strategy might give you twice the number of size possibilities for each model you like.

Are you anywhere you can try on catalysts in a shop? Just curious, did you try the Osprey Exos 58? That one is unisex, and should be big enough. Lot of people on here love it, but it has been hit or miss on the fit. However the straps on that one are not terribly padded.

Deuter and osprey both have pack fitting videos and instructions that may be helpful just Google the brand and packfitting. I even saw one from deuter with an old German guy with reasons why the straps might rub your neck. Its a u tube video entitled fitting your deuter backpack. Some brands of packs make the straps widen out as you get further from the attachment point, by raising the straps to high you end up with the narrower part around your neck lower the harness and the straps get wider or actually you get to a wider part of the harness

So, I’ve been having a hell of a time finding a pack to fit me properly – tried 3 packs without any luck and running out of time! I’m 5 6″, 128 lbs, 16-17″ torso […].

The consistent problem I’ve found is the shoulder straps not sitting on my shoulders […].

I’ve the same dimensions and the same problem. The only daypack I have ever used which did not present that problem is the Deuter model shown below. The combination of having the shoulder straps sewn in below he top of the pack and the inclusion of load lifters seems to be the why.

Mystery Ranch packs have an adjustable harness system. But unless you live in Montana you would have to order one to give it a try.

"I believe what James was referring to (he can correct me if I'm wrong) was the distinction of using a frameless UL pack that has either no hipbelt at all or only a nominal web one, as opposed to a pack with a frame where the weight should be mostly on the belt."
Yes, exactly.

For the inbetween packs, like the Jam, Trek and others, I don't care too much for carrying them any distance. They tend to collaps easily putting more weight on my shoulders. These raise my center of gravity too much for comfortable scrambling. Even using the "tube" methode of stiffening a pack, they tend to be a bit floppy against my back. (I am sensative to my shoulder weight due to a craked vertibra and a couple damaged disks in the C5, C6 and C7 area.)

I would suggest that *maybe* E.R. has a longer neck than what the average designs call for. This would place the weight and rubbing right along the neck as she is experiencing (though it could be she is just sensative to it.) The trapezius muscle would be narrower and thicker than normal, forcing a more extreme angle of fit on the shoulders, on or around the base of the neck. It would also acount for the extreme instability of the pack, ie, seemingly, the back's straps could not be tightened enough in the deltiod/triceptps area without over stressing the trapezius. The strap needs to be distributed fairly evenly across the entire shoulder musculature for comfort. Too far down, and it will seemingly "pin" her arms there, too far up will feel a lot of pain (like a stiff neck.) From this, I would suggest a couple pleats sewn into the strap itself to allow it to taper itself to her shoulders.

E.R., Try a couple "shoulder pads" from a fabric shop. You might find that these, pinned temperarily to a packs straps, will solve the whole problem.

Just a thought…

I recently purchased the ULA Circuit because of the adjustable hip belt. I have a 15" torso and have been using the Golite Pinnacle for years but it never quite fit right. The Circuit does. I had a few emails with Chris at ULA about size and fit and I'm happy with the purchase. I once had a Deuter ACT Lite 50+10 and liked it but I wanted something lighter once I began to pare down my gear…only to acquire more…but it's light, right?, so that's ok!

I actually got my Catalyst (size small S-strap and small belt) – and it seems like it should fit perfect! I have to load it up this evening, but so far I love it!

I still am a little bummed about the Deuter not working, as it was truly a very comfortable pack. For anyone else looking for a womans 60+ L pack – the back support and cushioning on that pack is amazing.

But, I'm LOVING the features of the Catalyst for the weight so far!

If have used the P2 (predecessor to the Catalyst), for about a decade as my main goto pack, so you will get no arguments from me! Hope it works out for you.

Try Gregory they change the frame sheet size as the pack size changes… I have found they make packs off the shelf fit small torso women better than any other mfg… The Jade series are not bad while the Diva are heavy empty but support weight very well and can be customized ie. shoulder straps and hip belt but at a cost $… with the right vendor… YMMV… Good luck…